Tuesday, June 30, 2015

Hop Juice - Northeast IPA Recipe

Inspired by my research into hop glycosides and yeast biotransformation for the July/August issue of Brew Your Own (subscribe here), I brewed an American IPA that showed off yeast-hop interaction. I love the aroma of raw right-from-the-bag hops, but I prefer a base of softer less-green/grassy aromatics. The science is a bit dry, but some yeast strains have the ability to free aromatics and convert certain compounds into more interestingly aromatic ones. From a sensory perspective, the result is a weaker aroma ounce for ounce of hops (requiring a higher hopping rate), but much juicier perception.

The North East has really been killing hoppy beers the last few years. Alchemist and Hill Farmstead started the trend, but newer breweries brewing wonderfully hoppy things include: Trillium, Tree House, Tired Hands, Other Half, and Fiddlehead. What unites them is a bit more yeast character than indistinct Cal/American ale, a wonderfully juicy/fruity/saturated aroma, soft mouthfeel, balanced bitterness, and less than spectacular clarity. A big change from what East Coast IPA meant five years ago: a malty IPA somewhere between American and English IPA.

For yeast, I selected Wyeast 1318 London III (alleged to be from Boddington’s). Not exactly the first strain you’d think of for an American IPA, but my friend Sean had good luck with it and it has been rumored to be the house strain at a hop-specialist brewery. If you are fermenting with WY1318, make sure you use a blow-off; I had never had to worry about 5.5 gallons of mid-gravity beer in an 8 gallon fermentor before!

I included flaked corn (because I had it sitting around) and wheat in the mash. These two adjuncts work counter, with the corn diluting the protein content of the wort while the wheat increases it. I’d read (somewhere) that the proteins in wheat flour are especially foam-positive even compared to flaked wheat, so I wanted to give it a try. I mixed the flour into the milled grain to distribute it, but even at this relatively low amount (half a pound in 10 gallons) the lauter was slower than I’m accustomed to.

The end of the boil brought on big dose of hops (Galaxy and Simcoe), allowing them to steep in the hot wort before chilling. The more hops added to the beer on the hot-side, the more of their water-soluble compounds (like glycosides) the yeast will be able to interact with. I added the first dose of dry hops midway through fermentation, again to allow more yeast-hop interactions. As a side-note, always smell each bag of hops before adding them to the beer; I had to throw away an ounce of Galaxy while brewing and dry hopping because they smelled less than fresh compared to the other packets.

The second half of this batch (pulled before the bittering hops) is well on its way to being an apricot sour – but more about that next week!

Soft and Juicy IPA

Appearance – The draft pour is more hefeweizen or wit than IPA (even extra-hoppy IPA). Translucent peach, I can barely make out my fingers on the opposite side of the glass. Cloudy/hazy side of muddy, but just barely (and this is after a few weeks in the keg!). A few flecks of hop matter in suspension. Pillowy white head, with unremarkable retention.

Smell – Juicy hops, mission accomplished! The Simcoe in the keg provides some hints of resiny pine, but the overwhelming impression is that of freshly squeezed grapefruit and mango. Everything a hoppy beer ought to be: bright, fresh, and vibrant. As I reach the bottom of the glass, just a hint of fresh grain.

Taste – Revitalizing nectar! Juicy ripe citrus and stone fruit. The bitterness is restrained, but present. The finish is long and slightly resiny compared to the front/mid palate. No weird yeastiness, and no alcohol hotness.

Mouthfeel – It has that softness of some of my favorite IPAs. It isn’t sharp at all thanks to the yeast, wheat, and chloride. Could be slightly fuller, especially in the finish. No corn next time?

Drinkability & Notes – Not sure if it was the yeast or the wheat that turned this into one of my cloudier batches. Despite that, one of a string of excellent mid-gravity hoppy beers. I’m not sure why I ever brew DIPAs? I’ll be trying WY1318 again without the flour to see if it really is that un-flocculant.

Soft and Juicy IPA

Recipe Specifics
--------------------
Batch Size (Gal): 5.50
Total Grain (Lbs): 12.25
Anticipated OG: 1.058
Anticipated SRM: 3.7
Anticipated IBU: 57.3
Brewhouse Efficiency: 72 %
Wort Boil Time: 90 Minutes

Grain
------
81.6% - 10.00 lbs. Rahr 2-Row Brewers Malt
8.2% - 1.00 lbs. Flaked Corn (Maize)
6.1% - 0.75 lbs. Weyermann CaraFoam
2.0% - 0.25 lbs. Weyermann Acidulated Malt
2.0% - 0.25 lbs. King Arthur All Purpose Flour

Hops
------
1.38 oz. Magnum (Pellet, 11.50% AA) @ 60 min.
2.00 oz. Simcoe (Pellet, 14.00% AA) @ 0 min.
2.00 oz. Galaxy (Pellet, 12.00% AA) @ 0 min.
3.00 oz. Galaxy (Pellet, 12.00% AA) Dry Hop Primary
3.00 oz. Simcoe (Whole, 14.00% AA) Keg Hop

Extras
-------
0.50 tsp Yeast Nutrient @ 8 min.
0.50 Whirlfloc @ 8 min.

Yeast
------
WYeast 1318 London Ale III

Water Profile
-------------
Profile: Washington, Hoppy

Mash Schedule
-----------------
Sacch Rest - 30 min @ 154F

Notes
-------
5/23/15 - 2 L stir-plate starter with a 3 month old Wyeast pack of 1318.

Brewed 5/24/15

Note: this recipe was actually double everything listed, half was run off after 30 minutes for souring.

Mash was 3 gallons of distilled, plus 4.25 filtered DC tap. 2 tsp of 10% phosphoric acid. 6 g each CaCl and Gypsum. Mash pH = 5.33 after 5 minutes of recirculation. 1 gallon of distilled added as a cold sparge. 120 PPM chloride and 140 PPM sulfate, including mash and sparge water.

Collected 6.5 gallons of 1.045 runnings. Boiled 30 minutes without hops. Topped off the boil with 3/4 gallon of filtered tap water.

Added flame-out hops. Whirpooled for 5 minutes, settled for 25. Down to 170F naturally. Thanks to warm-weather ground water only able to chill to 72F. Left at 62F to chill for five hours before pitching.

5/27/15 Added the 3 oz of Galaxy dry hops. Warmed to 66F to encourage fermentation to finish strong.

6/4/15 Kegged with 3 oz of whole Simcoe. Still very cloudy. Right into the fridge. FG 1.013.

112 comments:

Seth Farquharson said...

Can you explain why you used the lacto and ECY Dirty Dozen?
What do you think of using Saf-4 rather than 1318?

CulturaCervejaBrasil said...

love those less bitter e more hoppy ipa's ! wonder how sparging with cold water affect !!
what are your impressions on using british yeast for american ipa ?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Those starters were for the other half, the apricot sour. I missed that mention when I was cleaning up the recipe, and scaling the malt and water adjustments. Fixed now!

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Cold water sparge is just for ease of brewing on my system. Kai found it didn't reduce efficiency by much (about 1%).

I like a fruitier yeast in hoppy beers. Makes them taste more like a beer, rather than a raw hop extract. Personal preference etc.

Brian said...

What temp did you ferment at?

Darren White said...

Why do you leave the steeping hops off the ibu calculation? I've been trying to figure out how these effect bitterness and just have been using beersmith set to 30 minute steep. I'm curious what or how you estimate the bitterness these additions contribute and the right balance for something like this. <30 IBUs can't be right I'm assuming.

Sean Kinnas said...

I'm a fan of 1318 and usually use it for Special Bitters and English stouts. Your fermentation sounds very different from what I've observed with that yeast. Usually, it's a thick, whipped cream cheese consistency krausen an inch or two thick. it's frequently persistent, to the point where the beer finishes and drops clear with the krausen intact. Never had blow off or clarity issues.

Will Mundel said...

Thanks for your inclusion of mash PH in this recipe. Also, wow - I'm impressed by how much CaCl you used. Can you please provide the end values (post-additions) for your water make up for this beer.

Will Mundel said...

Also, what has been your experience with dry hopping into the keg pre-carbonation? I'm always a bit worried about grassy, older hop aromas having the leaf/whole hops in there for more than 5 days.

Grey Ghost said...

http://www.bear-flavored.com/2014/08/perfecting-already-good-recipes-and.html

Seems appropriate regarding the yeast selection.

Zachary Keim said...

Have you thought about using a yeast specifically high in beta glucosaide during the dry hop?

For my current batch, I'm going to rack off to the secondary, with my dry hops (Citra, Mosiac, and Amarillo) with a bit of sugar and QA-23, a wine yeast. I'm hoping the yeast will free up the aromatic compounds, dry out the beer, and scavenge oxygen from the dry hop.

Josh said...

I'm trying to use a water chemistry calculator for DC and had a question about DC's water report. They list alkalinity(62ppm) and calcium hardness(91ppm). Which number should I enter into the alkalinity field in a water chemistry calculator?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

62F ambient for the first few days, then up to 66F once fermentation stayed to slow. Finally 68F to make sure it was done.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

The temperature drops so quickly that I don't think there is a huge amount of isomerization. We really had to tweak scaling up recipes for Modern Times, 60 minutes and still at 210F does extract lots of bitterness! I'd guess mine are more like 5-10 addition equivalent. Not a big deal in an IPA (bigger consideration in a more delicate recipe).

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Fixed it, that was the amount for the whole 11 gallon batch!

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Cold and whole, I've never had an issue. Plenty of other brewers agree, give it a shot!

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I wonder how active a wine yeast would be, most are pretty poor at fermenting maltose and maltotriose. I've considered the straight enzyme route...

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Either works, just depends on what the calculator is looking for in its calculations. I use 78 ppm carbonate for DC, it's what ProMash spit out.

Zachary Keim said...

That's why I was going to give it some simple sugar too, so it can get active. Straight enzyme would be interesting, but I don't think my local homebrew store would carry it. I'm lucky enough 1/2 had the QA-23.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Very interested to hear how it turns out!

Paul said...

So you boiled the whole batch for 30 minutes, drew off half of it to sour and then continued boiling the remaining wort for an hour with your regular hop additions? I'm curious how you chilled the portion you were going to sour.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Correct. Ran the wort through my plate chiller, pretty fast because I wanted to pitch the Lacto close to 100F.

Matt said...

Curious what gravity you were at when you added your first dry hop?

Joe said...

What is your method for such a large dryhop? If I did 3oz in a carboy, it would be 1.5oz on top of the beer, and 1.5oz sitting dry on top of the first 1.5oz.

Andrew Kaczmarek Photography said...

What is the philosophy for the flower addition?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Matt: I didn't take a gravity reading when I added the hops, I'd target ~75% of your target attenuation.

Joe: Whole hops or pellets? I add pellets directly (like this one), but I'd bag whole hops for the same reason.

Andrew: Beyond what I mentioned in the post?

Steven St. Germain said...

Mike,

In the recipe section on 5/27/15 you said you warmed the beer to 66f to encourage the beer to finish. Did you ferment at 62f up until that day?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Correct, 62F ambient for the first few days, then up to 66F.

James Dugan said...

Great post Mike, nice follow up to your article in BYO. Curious on your thoughts on Conan verse 1318 in hoppy beers? Any guess on the yeast Trillium is using, I love their yeast character.

James said...

I've brewed about 7 or so single hop pales with this yeast. Using open FV's, top cropping and bottle conditioning. FWH, steeps and dry hops only. Mashed at 68C and fermented at 18C. FG's around 1.012. Chloride 120 Sulphate 180.

IME the beers cleared fine. Slight residual sweetness in the form of a mild toffee type flavour and smell, not unpleasant but found I had to up the IBU's to compensate. Compared to Chico the yeast is def more malt forward, beers feel lighter and a little thinner and the hops were hidden substantially.

The one that really worked amazingly however was re pitch number 5 with Mosaic. Sweet dank piney berries all the way! A shockingly good beer in the mould of 'holy crap...that stinks real good'!

Anyway...I haven't given up with the yeast...just have more success mashin high, using oats and keeping the water profile with Chico.

Did you get any residual sweetness that seems greater than the FG would infer?

My hunch is the classic English open FV and bottle conditionin route brings out the malt character more and aids with the clarity...

Thoughts?

James said...

At the time the FV's were 230 litres to the brim filled to 160litres. Every brew that monster Krausen would pick a fight with the lid! Amazing yeast in that respect and by far and away the best smelling fermentations I've ever witnessed.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

When Conan is right and it gives a bit stone-fruit aroma I'm a fan. I didn't have great luck getting either the ECY/TYB strains to attenuate like I wanted though. Can't say I prefer one over the other, both add something pleasant to hoppy beers that you can't get from a clean yeast. Not sure what Trillium uses.

I don't find this beer very sweet at all. Did you have any caramel malt in there? Toffee isn't a flavor I've ever associated with yeast. Not sure on the clarity differences, I'm sure the hops in the keg didn't help. Pressure can certainly have an influence on flocculation characteristics.

James said...

I think I was going with 5% Fawcett Caramalt (20-25ebc) at the time. The beers themselves were about 9 EBC.

Interesting regarding the sweetness or lack thereof for you. From my experience the sweetness belied the FG quite considerably.

I can feel a Chico, 1318 and Conan 'yeast off' coming on!

James said...

Would you say 1318 is 'THE' yeast Hill Farmstead, Tired Hands, Treehouse and Lawson's Finest are using?

If they are using it I wonder how they go about taming it! I can imagine it may well be challenging to bottom crop this yeast in a conical.

Tim said...

If brewing again, would you change anything in the water profile and or grains/adjuncts?

marc foster said...

Could you point me to the Kai info on cold water sparging efficiency? I had never heard that and it would be very interesting to me given my current setup. as always, thanks! FWIW, tree house claims to use a clean american strain, as does MBC and wormtown.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

This certainly isn't the yeast that all (or necessarily any) of those breweries are using. Here's an IPA recipe from Tree House's Nate Lanier that calls for American ale yeast. I've also read some people suggest that Tired Hands uses S-04. I take these sorts of suggestions as inspiration, I don't really care what they're actually using if I find something that works for me!

It may be that by repitching 1318 a few times it becomes easier to work with, many of those breweries also are OK with some haze. Wasn't trying to suggest they are all doing the same thing, just that many similar attributes unite them. Clearly there are also plenty of hoppy beers in New England that don't fit that mold!

Next time I'd probably swap out the corn for wheat or oats. It is fine as is, but the mouthfeel could be even a little more substantial.

Here is Kai's experiment with cold water sparging.

Brandon Branscome said...

Mike - are you utilizing your HopRocket any more? Seems like these NE IPAs are over-the-top abundant in hop aroma. Locking in some of those hop volatiles seems like a necessity.

thx

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

After brewing a Pilsner with the HopRocket and no dry hops, I determined I really wasn't getting much character from it. The idea is great, but the results are less than compelling. I've found my results are as good or better moving hop-back additions to hop-stand or dry hopping. Much easier not dealing with it too! Very few breweries use hop-backs.

Steven St. Germain said...

Mike,

I see you brewed on 5-24-15 and kegged on 6-4-15. At what point did you start drinking this? At the time of kegging were the flavors where you wanted them besides the dry hop addition in the keg?
I've been brewing for 3 years and recently started kegging and making my own recipes. I'm making beers I like over commercial beers but still not sure about process...especially turn around time. The last couple APA's I was drinking around 10 to 12 days from brew day (no keg hops).
These "rebalanced" hoppy beers seem to get their bitterness from a raw hop character as opposed to isomerization. Due to this I feel like I'm chasing the hop flavor when drinking these. Too old and flavors drop out...too young and they are a little sharp. There is a small window when they have peaked. Do you find this also?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I was hustling to keg it before I left for National Homebrewers in San Diego. I started drinking it around 6/14 when I got home. I had a good four weeks with it from there. It's started falling off in the last week or so. Still damn good, but not as lively and juicy as it was before. Despite my 10 gallon capacity, I'd never brew 10 gallons of hoppy beer at once, it'd be dead by the time the second keg went on!

Alex King said...

Regarding the idea above using wine yeast: why not a mixed QA23/Brett C or WLP648 primary? Adding killer yeast to something with a bunch of suspended susceptible ale yeast sounds like a good way to get autolysis flavors, but I've never tried it. Brett won't die, and can take up the maltriose slack. Lots of hop glycosides presumably would get cleaved, but who knows what the mouthfeel, etc will be like. I think it's a worthy experiment.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Sounds like a good idea! My BM45 fermented Flemish red I had some weird off-flavors for awhile that I attributed to the killer yeast offing the susceptible brewer's yeast in the souring blend.

Kevin Kebea said...

Brewed this recipe on Friday. I have never added hops to a keg before, but I really want to try it. Do you recommend a specific type of bag to use? Also, do you do anything special to sanitize the bag. Lastly, do you just through the bag in or do you secure it in place any way to keep it away from the dip tube. Thanks!

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I use new nylon knee high stockings. They are fine enough that they won't let much particulate out. I put in a cup of glass marbles, and tie them off at the bottom. I steam the whole thing to sanitize it. Once it cools down enough to handle, I add the hops in and tie off the top. Then I tie the top to the knot above the marbles (making a loop of hops). I just drop it into the keg, purge with CO2, and then rack the beer in.

Best of luck!

jason.bromley said...

Do you leave the dry hop in the keg for the drinking duration, or pull them after a couple weeks? And if you leave them in for the duration, how long till you kick the keg?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Still drinking this batch (about 8 weeks since I kegged), and the hops are still in there!

farmhousebrewingsupply said...

Must have been the wheat, 1318 typically drops and clears fast; I use it my English and American IPA'S and it is a wonderful strain, that allows a quick turn around. Love the fruit character that it provides without dominating the beer....that is if you keep the temp down on it.

Matt said...

Just tapped a beer inspired by this. I did Pearl malt with about 7% Oat Malt and 7% golden naked oats to 1.055. .75 Simcoe to bitter, then 1.25 Simcoe and 2 oz of Galaxy at flame out. Pitched Gigayeast Conan. Dry hopped with 2 oz each of simcoe and Galaxy. I also balanced the chloride/sulfate to be about even.

It needs a few more days to settle, but the flavors are round and juicy, it feels thick but not filling. I am definitely a fan. I have also used London III in similar situations and will again.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Glad to hear! My next batch in this line will have a few pounds of oat malt.

Jason Terry said...

Love the sound ofthis recipe! Looking to try this recipe with flaked oat instead of corn, or would you recommend the oat malt as you suggested. I see your sulfate/ Chloride, could you tell me approx where I should be with the residual alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium and Sodium? Thank You, Jason

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Either flaked oats or oat malt could work for a more substantial body. Flaked oats will add more haze, which isn't necessarily an issue, but could turn it murky given the already hazy appearance.

No reason to add any extra magnesium, carbonate, or sodium. The lower the better, especially the last two. You'll likely have plenty of calcium (over 50 PPM) from the gypsum and CaCl additions. You may need to adjust the acid additions to hit the target pH depending on your exact mineral profile.

Good luck!

Jason Terry said...

I have been reading the "soft and pillowy mouthfeel" thread in hombrew talk. Very interesting read regarding chloride/sulfate ratios, mash/kettle/final ph and adjuncts. I saw some of your posts, Interested to see what you took away from it. You didn't experience any minerally tastes with this ratio? Have you tried any of the 120 CL / 70 So4 ratios yet or higher Ca values to compare. Also wondering what PPG & Lovi values you had for the flour addition. I couldn't find much info. Great posts, keep up the good work.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

The total amounts are so low compared to something like Burton-on-Trent, no minerally taste to my palate. The actual amounts are far more important than the ratio. The malt also provides 100s of PPM of the same minerals as well, so subtle changes likely wouldn't be noticeable.

The flour is close to pure starch with around 10% protein, so it should be around 1.040 PPG. Around 1-2 SRM. There is so little of it the exact numbers aren't hugely consequential.

Cheers!

Unknown said...

This is an awesome read!

Curious if the purpose of the Acidulated malt is to add a sourness? I'm asking since my LBS doesn't carry it and i'm wonder if i can substitute something - trying to understand the purpose in order to got down this path.

Thanks!

Tom

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

My water (DC) is moderately high in carbonate. Carbonate raises the pH. Despite the dilution with distilled water and additions of calcium salts, I need a bit of extra acid to get the pH to where I want it. At a minimum I'd plug your local water into a pH calculator and figure out how much acid (phosphoric or lactic) you need to get a mash pH around 5.3. Ideally you'd have a pH meter and add acid as needed.

Paul said...

I'm trying to match your water profile, but the additions you mention don't necessarily apply to me. Could you post the profile result after your additions given your source?

Jason Terry said...

Interested when you'll be doing a write on the Softer & Juicer IPA, I can't wait to hear about it.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

That's exactly why I don't publish my target water, I don't think it is something that should be copied (because it is less than ideal because of my tap water). Happy to give you my ideal water for something like this though: 75-125 PPM calcium, 150-175 PPM sulfate, 100-125 PPM chloride, 5-15 PPM magnesium, <20 PPM sodium, and <50 PPM carbonate. If you have more sodium or carbonate than that, I'd dilute with RO/distilled to get it down close to there, but there is no reason to add salts to raise either even if you are at zero! Don't worry about a few dozen points in either direction though as many of these minerals will also be contributed in various amounts by the malt. Also you should be measuring the pH and adding acid as needed to reach the target pH, rather than relying on my amounts! Best of luck!

Alex Negrete said...

What's the reason for kegging with whole cone versus using pellets like you did with the first dry hop? I just brewed this and I'll be kegging soon and I was wondering if I should make a trip back to the home brew store to grab whole cones since I bought pellets of Simcoe instead.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I find that pellets have a greater likelihood of become over-extracted than whole hops with extended contact. You might want to tie off the bag so it doesn't remain in contact with the beer the entire time the beer is in the keg (that's what I did for my most recent variation on this one).

jlee said...

Thanks for including the end results of your water adjustments and your ideal water profile. I am really new in AG brewing and just getting into adjusting my water for different styles so getting a frame of reference for water make-up in recipes is very helpful.

If you were to replace the corn and flour with flaked wheat would you keep it at at ~10% of the grist?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Cheers! 10% flaked wheat would be a fine addition to a hoppy beer.

Brent Baskin said...

In my experiences, 1318 has a notoriously foamy krausen even after all of fermentation is complete. How did you add your hops and get them in contact with the beer and no just the krausen before primary was finished without disturbing it?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Agreed! No worries about disturbing the krausen (it doesn't really "do" anything). I simply dumped the pellets directly in during the tail end of fermentation. Like most IPAs, I had a second addition of dry hops in the keg. Pellets or weighted/bagged whole hops should sink below the krausen without issue.

James Wilfinger said...

Mike love all your information on brewing it's very helpful and informative.I have been reading more and more about sulfate to chloride ratio and In Palmer's book he talks about a 2 to 1 ratio but I noticed in your water profile shows a much closer to a 1 to 1 ratio have you experienced this to make your beard seem more palatable

Michael Sweeney said...

Hi, where you're trying for a hazy brew is the whirfloc adding anything? I've been leaving it out lately, beside making my beer more clear is there a benefit that I'm missing out on?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I don't think ratio of sulfate to chloride is a useful concept, the total amounts are what is salient. It just depends what sort of balance you want for the beer. There isn't a "correct" answer.

For kettle finings it is about your process/equipment. Whirlfloc really isn't that helpful for improving clarity, it is more beneficial for leaving trub behind in the kettle rather than transferring it to your fermentor. If you aren't whirlpooling, settling, and drawing off there really isn't a benefit to it (in my opinion)!

iflah45 said...

What's your opinion on how to carbonate the keg? Do you set and forget, or are you starting high for a few days and then dropping it down to serving pressure? Also, does having the hops in there make a difference as to how you should carb it?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

If I'm not keg hopping, I'll chill/pressurize and then shake to give it a head start. I have multiple kegs on the same regulator, so usually I don't mess with the pressure. You can certainly up the pressure at the start to speed things up, but many beers benefit from a week or two of cold conditioning before serving!

Unknown said...

Looks like a great recipe! Unfortunately I don't have access to liquid yeast. What dry yeast is best for this style? S-04?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I haven't tried any dried yeasts with this type of IPA, but S-04 is getting some interest. If you give it a shot, let me know how it turns out!

Daniel DK said...

I just brewed this with s-04, will definitely report back with how it turns out! I subbed mosaic for the galaxy but otherwise it should be the same.

abrouwers said...

Sorry, follow-up question! I'm going to brew a more "session" version of Congress St from Trillium, who kindly provides:

MALT: American 2-row Barley, White Wheat, C-15, Dextrine, Dextrose

I'm thinking of dropping the dextrose, and doing something like: 80% 2-row, 10% wheat, 5% c-15, 5% carapils. However, I love the fluffy head your beer provides, which I haven't seen from using malted wheat alone. I was curious if using the flour helped with this, or would it be redundant with my grain bill (already utilizing 10% wheat)?

Possible bonus question, as both an apparent experienced session + east coast IPA brewer! What would your session strength east-coast IPA grain bill look like?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

As the post notes, there are some sources that suggest that flour is an especially good choice if your goal is to improve the head of your beer. Malted wheat, CaraPils, and hops will help too, so it may not be strictly required though!

It depends how session-strength you want to go. Below 1.045 I'd start adding Vienna and/or Maris Otter with the American base malt to enhance the maltiness. 5% pale crystal certainly wouldn't hurt either (I'm a CaraVienna fan). Above 1.045, I'd probably keep it pretty similar to the recipe here(minus the corn), with protein from wheat or oats helping to enhance the body. I'd also mash hotter the lower the OG was going to be.

Best of luck!

Mike Agogliati said...

When you say everything is doubled? You put 20 oz total of hops in this?

Mike

MCDent said...

Great recipe and description. I am going to give this a try, however I do not have any kegs and only do bottles currently.
Is there anything I should change given that?

Also, as the yeast is a very active strain, is there a need for the additional nutrient do you think?

Cheers!
Mike

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

The recipe is scaled to brew as is. The mash/water/minerals were double what is listed, but the hops were for this portion of the batch only.

You'll just want to add the second dose of dry hops to the fermentor after fermentation finishes (or even combined with the late-fermentation dose). Sadly it is almost impossible to get an IPA super-fresh without kegging (this will give you your best shot though). Be as careful as you can about air exposure, and store them cold as soon as they are carbonated and cleaned up.

You can certainly skip the nutrient, I do it out of habit, but with proper pitching rates, aeration etc. it shouldn't be an issue! Although it may be a good idea if you are using all RO/distilled just to ensure there are trace minerals. Also a good idea if you repitch your yeast more than a couple times.

James said...

I have just started brewing this style of beer with s-04. Initial results are promising. Extremely murky beer, hop/yeast boundary blurring.

I ferment at 16 degs C as I find this yeast disgusting 18 or higher.

I will say that if ever you brew a very light hoppy pale (6-6.5 EBC) then murkiness makes it look lovely. Clarity and it literally looks like urine.

James said...

How did this turn out?

MCDent said...

I notice you didnt cold-crash before you kegged? Was that intentional? Does it make any difference?

Brennan Jablonski said...

I just came here to say I've read this article 5-6 times and taken something different away each time. Thanks for posting this!
I'm on my third iteration of house pale ale, Nelson, Centennial, Galaxy (3-1-1)

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I avoid crashing too long or too cold for a hoppy beer like this. It sits on tap at about 40F while it carbonates for a week, that's all it needs in my opinion.

Sounds like a wonderful hop combo! Gearing up for another riff on this to serve at Club Night at NHC, Citra/Simcoe/Mosaic..!

James said...

Azacca:Mosaic 1:1 seems to work extremely well. Both seem to amplify each other.

Drew Washichek said...

This looks great! For us extract or mini-mash brewers, do you have an equivalent for a 5 gallon batch?

Patrick A said...

Could you offer any help on this recipe for a 5 gallon extract recipe?

I was thinking 7 LB light DME in place of 2 row, and keeping everything else similar. Would steep the specialty grains and adjuncts.

Any advise would be greatly appreciated!

Patrick A said...

Any advise for an extract brewer on this recipe?

I was think 6.5 # light DME for the 2 row. Steeping the adjuncts and specialty grains for 30 min. @ 150, and keeping the hop profile the same.

Any info would be awesome!

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Sure, just mini-mash the rest of the grain bill with as much pale malt as you can handle. You really need a few pounds of enzymatic malt in there, or all you'll be getting is starch from the corn/carapils.

You could make a fine NE IPA with a blend of wheat and pale extract if you'd rather go that route. If you partial boil, you'd also want to up the hopping to compensate for lower utilization.

Unknown said...

Forgive my ignorance as I am a very new homebrewer, but my question is about the mash and boil. Did you mash for 30mins and boil for 60mins? Or vice versa? Also, what temp did you boil and mash at? This NE style IPA is exactly what I am looking to brew, just want to make sure I have the temps right. Thanks in advance!
Also, if I wanted to do a 10 gal batch, would it simply be just doubling the recipe?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

30 minute mash at 154F with a 90 minute boil.

Yep, double away (approximately accounting for your efficiency, boil-off rate, losses etc.)

Shannon Harris said...

I am also new to homebrewing but I do mini-mash 5gal batches (soon up to 15 all grain with my new Spike equip.) Since I do mini-mash, would I sub out the 2 row for maybe 3 lbs of extra pale LME? Working off one kettle at the moment so may BIAB it

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Sure you could sub out most of the 2-row for extract. You'd want to leave a couple pounds to contribute the enzymes to convert the starches from the adjuncts and specialty malts. The exact amount of extract you'd need to hit the target gravity would depend on your efficiency (you can measure your gravity after the mini-mash and use brewing software to figure out the exact amount). Best of luck!

Anonymous said...

Hi Mike. Long time listener, first time caller. What issues might I run into if I used fresh hops in this recipe? Any ideas?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

So long as you scale up the hop additions (4-5X) to get the same aromatic/bittering punch, no major problems that I can see. The grassiness of the fresh hops will be a bit different, but it should be interesting! I'd likely skip the keg hops and just add all the dry hops together. Given the distance between New England and Pacific Northwest I haven't tasted a fresh-hopped NEIPA, but it should work (let me know if it does!).

Anonymous said...

I'm only getting 2-3 pounds of hops (Cascade), so maybe I don't quite have enough (my math says 5-6x the dried hops in your recipe is somewhere between 4 and 5 pounds). I imagine I could supplement with some dried hop pellets. Maybe I can add pellets to the boil as prescribed in your recipe, and replace the 6 oz. of dry hopping with the fresh Cascade? Thanks for your advice!

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I haven't had much success with fresh hops, but that seems reasonable. Cascade tends to have lower oils and lower aroma-impact that Galaxy and Simcoe too ounce-for-ounce. It'll be good, but very different!

Mark Gregory Meyers, Jr. said...

What did you aim for in terms of CO2 volumes for serving on this? Any change to affect mouthfeel?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I serve most of my beers ~12 PSI at 40F, so 2.5 volumes.

Bobby Fontaine said...

can you explain the all purpose flour? I dont get it

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

The addition of flour is explained in the post (head retention).

Tim said...

Michael,

First, thank you for producing such wonderful content over the years. This site and your book are my favorite/go-to resources.

A question regarding your process here.. Do you take any special measures to prevent oxygen contact when adding the primary dry hops?..The c02 layer from fermentation enough to protect it..or do you c02 purge your primary after the addition?

Thanks!

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

One big advantage of dry hopping during active fermentation is that yeast love oxygen and will use any introduced at this stage. As a result you don't need to do anything special. For the keg hops on the other hand, I put them into the keg before purging.

Timothy Melle said...

Did the beer stay cloudy? I have tried this style before and it clears up quite a bit over time.

twisty said...

I can tell you for sure that the heavy hazzyness is due to the amount of flour you put in and the amount of dry hop!

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I drink kegs of hoppy beers pretty quickly, this one didn't really clear before it kicked a month later. There really isn't a convincing explanation for what causes the haze in NEIPAs.

The protein from the flour in the mash certainly doesn't help clarity, but I've added it to other styles without getting nearly this level of haze. Same with dry hopping, if you wait until after fermentation (as I did for years with West Coast IPAs) they won't haze up this much.

Chris Kupka said...

Hey what's the deal with kegging after 10 days? I've always thought you should wait about 3 weeks. If I could brew and then bottle 10 days later that would be a game changer. Can you please explain this to me?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

If you pitch enough healthy yeast, fermentation should only take 3-4 days for most beers. Another week for the yeast to clean up is plenty for a hoppy beer. One advantage of kegging is that as the beer clarifies during force carbonation yeast drops out, and is then pulled out in the first pint or two. When I bottled, I tended to wait a little longer, but it depended on the yeast. Generally I'm not in a hurry now because I only bottle strong and sour beers.

Anonymous said...

Hey man, planning on brewing this on Friday. I generally bottle rather than kegging. When would you put in the keg hops in this instance?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Apologies, this one was caught in the spam filter!

There isn't a great substitute for keg hops unless you have a way to put the hops into another fermentor, CO2 purge, and then transfer the fully-fermented beer onto them prior to bottling. You could certainly up the initial dry hop addition if you would like, but the effect won't be the same.

I gave up bottling hoppy beers years ago, there just isn't a substitute for the time savings and oxidation reducing powers of a keg!

Unknown said...

Why do you make the sour mash?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Not sure exactly what the question is asking. I added phosphoric acid to the mash to improve enzymatic activity and set up the boil and fermentations for their optima. I additionally soured a portion of the wort for a sour beer.

Anonymous said...

Do you have any advice on combining a kettle sour method with a NEIPA? I'm trying to produce a tart and juicy IPA (similar to Epic Tart and Juicy or Lagunitas Aunt Sally). I want to use use similar technique for a base beer that resembles the NEIPA--grain bill of mostly pale 2 row and flaked wheat/oats and some lactose. Planning a kettle sour with yogurt culture (this has lead to some unique creaminess in the past) and boiling with a heavy dry hop and whirlpool addition totaling 4lb/bbl (citra, simcoe, el dorado). I have some concerns the dry hop and the lacto will clash. Any advice on achieving a harmonious balance?

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