Monday, July 23, 2018

Rye NEIPA with Mosaic and Hallertau Blanc

Squeeze that grain bag!If you've followed this blog, you've likely picked-up on my my interest in low-alcohol hoppy beers. For example 3.6% ABV Vienna IPA2.3% Session NEIPA, all the way down to this 2.1% Nelson Wheat-IPA. I'm always looking for new techniques to shoehorn the body, malt flavor, and balance associated with IPAs into a smaller package.

This batch was inspired by a couple of rye-heavy table beer that James Spencer shared with me (video of his process). Rye malt is a powerhouse of mouthfeel, and meshes well with hoppy beers. I paired it with Golden Naked Oats in an attempt to infuse more malt flavor and perceived sweetness.

For a grain bill with more beta glucan than husk the only option is brew in a bag (BIAB)... or start buying rice hulls by the sack. I further enhanced the malt flavor by using a 165F (74C) mash to allow me to add more grain without increasing the ABV. Add to that a quick 30 minute boil, and it was an easy brew day.

I've used Mosaic many times, but Hallertau Blanc only once in this Alsatian Saison. I've always associated the flavors I get from these two varieties with that of Nelson Sauvin. It all made sense when I read all three contain the same thiol 3S4MP, which is also a signature of Sauvignon blanc wine and provides a grapefruit-rhubarb aroma. With the increasing demand for Nelson, it made sense to see if the other two in combination could serve as a passable replacement.

The old laptop I wrote American Sour Beers on...As if this beer didn't need another twist, it was my first time attempting to use sound waves to speed dry hop extraction. I'm not the first one to pump decibels into beer (Cambridge Brewing, Green Man, and Baladin all have), but I'm not aware of anyone doing it specifically for dry hopping. When you add pellets they have a tendency to either float, or sink to the bottom. Either way it isn't ideal for extraction. Playing 80 Hz through an old USB speaker  vibrated the BrewBucket pretty well, hopefully increasing the beer-hop contact. Hard to know how much it accomplished without a control...

Look for my Brew Your Own article about Table Beers in the October issue where I go more into depth on this batch and an ESB that I mashed at 70F!

Rye Table Pale Ale (RTPA) 

Smell – Good Nelson-reminiscent gooseberry Sauvignon blanc wininess from the hops. Herbal notes too from the Hallertau Blanc. Without the alcohol as a vector for the dry hops, the aroma doesn’t pop - or maybe the sound waves drove out CO2 and aromatics with it. A light graininess fills in the gaps in the hop aroma.

Appearance – Hazy without particulate after three weeks cold. Ultra-pale, almost looks like a cloudy Berliner weisse. Head retention is pretty good for such a small beer, but the bubbles are bigger and less stable than the dense foam of my NEIPAs.

Taste – Hop flavor is stronger than the nose. Similar white wine flavors, but with a subtle berry flavor from the Mosaic. Mid-palate is a tad lacking in terms of malt flavor, but the hops linger into the finish covering for it. Bitterness is present, but restrained, just about right for this lean beer. Tastes like beer rather than a malt soda.

Mouthfeel – The body is remarkable for a beer under 2% ABV - a friend called it "creamy" in a blind tasting. Moderate carbonation doesn’t disrupt.

Drinkability & Notes – I’m not sure I’ve brewed a beer that I want to drink more of in a session. One of those that doesn’t wow unless you know what is special about it.

Changes for Next Time – Would be interesting to add some light crystal malt and/or Vienna to try to increase the malt flavor. The body is there. For the hops I might go 2:1 in favor of Mosaic and add a second dry hop to try to enhance the aroma.


Batch Size: 5.50 gal
SRM: 5.6
IBU: 44.5
OG: 1.029
FG: 1.015
ABV: 1.84%
Final pH: 4.52
Brewhouse Efficiency: 73%
Boil Time: 30 Mins

72.4% - 5.25 lbs Briess Rye Malt
27.6% - 2.0 lbs Simpsons Golden Naked Oats

Mash In - 45 min @ 165F

2.00 oz Hallertau Blanc (Pellets, 10.50% AA) @ 185F for 30 min Whirlpool
2.00 oz Mosaic (Pellets, 12.25% AA) @ 185F for 30 min Whirlpool
2.00 oz Hallertau Blanc (Pellets, 10.50% AA) @ Dry Hop Day 2
2.00 oz Mosaic (Pellets, 12.25% AA) @ Dry Hop Day 2

10 g Calcium Chloride @ Mash
3 tsp Phosphoric Acid 10% @ Mash


.5 Whirlfloc Tablet @ 5 min

SafAle English Ale S-04

Brewed 6/9/18 with Spencer (Sapwood's tasting room manager)


Mashed with 4 gallons distilled, 2 gallons of DC tap.

Topped up with 2 gallons of DC and .5 gallons of distilled.

Cool to 185F for 30 whirlpool addition.

Chilled to 75F. Moved to fridge set to 45 for a few hours to cool. Pitched at 62F, set to 68F to allow to warm.

Dry hopped after 48 hours. Hit with 80 hz for 24 hours immediately after adding hops.

Kegged 6/15/18 FG 1.014, 52% AA (1.84% ABV).

I get a commission if you buy something after clicking the links to MoreBeer/Amazon/Adventures in Homebrewing/Great Fermentations!


Unknown said...

Thanks for the recipe, if you were to substitute gno for low color crystal malt would you up the%? 70/30 rye/ c malt?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

That could certainly make a good beer, but GNO have a distinct flavor that to my palate isn't as distinct as C10. Maybe 70% rye malt, 20% C10, 10% flaked oats?

Pete said...


44.5 IBU is that calculated just from 185F whirlpool additions?
Sounds BIG for a 1.029 beer.


The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I'm still using the old BeerSmith that doesn't account for the lower whirlpool temperature. Likely considerably lower, especially considering the temperature fell after adding the hops.

My previous 2.3% NEIPA I added a similar amount of hops at flame-out and the bitterness was too high.

Unknown said...

Maybe a dumb question, but what does "Hit with 80 hz for 24 hours immediately after adding hops." mean? 80 hertz?

digital said...

73% seemed high to me for that OG so I threw your recipe into brewers friend and it calculated 60% efficiency.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Yep, 80 hertz was the tone I ran through the speaker wedged against the fermentor.

Generally lower gravity leads to higher efficiency given the higher ratio of water to gain.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Digital, reread your question and I think I know where the disconnect is. My system is setup in BeerSmith to have a gallon of losses between the kettle and fermentor. The efficiency takes the post-boil volume into account rather than the amount into the fermentor. I'd suggest adjusting the volume/efficiency to suit your system.

J-W Maessen said...

How did you keep the constant 80Hz hum from driving everyone nuts?

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

It was in a fridge downstairs and I wasn't blasting it too loud. I didn't notice the sound unless I was down there near it. Might be a challenge to scale-up... jacketed fermentors don't help either.

Unknown said...

Hello! Thanks for the great blog. That is a cool idea using sound for extraction during dry hopping. I am about to do a session IPA and have been wrestling with the lack of aroma from dry hopping under low-abv conditions too. I am about to try an idea that I haven't seen any info on but was wondering if you had any input.

I am going to brew 1/2 the quantity of beer at 2x the gravity (3 gallons at 1.075). I plan on splitting this at fementation by filling one fementer with 2 gallons and another fermenter with 1 gallon. I will then add 3 gallons of water to the 1 gallon and let both ferment.

Dry hopping would occur only in the 2 gallon with the normal amount of hops for 6 gallons. The alcohol should be at right around 7% during dry hopping.

After a bit I will rack the 4 gallons of low-abv beer onto the 2 making a 3.5% beer.

Bad part about this is taking up 2 fermenters for a little bit, but I am going to try it soon.

Wondering if you have any input. Thanks, and keep up the good work!

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Certainly worth an experiment! High-gravity brewing is a relatively common technique when it comes to macro-lagers. They usually dilute with de-aerated water post fermentation to squeeze extra beer out of the same sized vessels. You just have to be careful not to introduce oxygen when you blend, and that your higher-gravity fermentation doesn't produce any off-flavors. I'm not sure if the alcohol concentration will help more than diluting hurts when it comes to hop aroma. Please let me know what you discover!

Two Shepherds said...

I threw this recipe into my Brewer's Friend software and it said that it would come out at a 3.33% abv and I am trying to figure out what is making it double what your abv was.
Efficiency 70%
5.25 lbs of American Rye
2 lbs of Golden Naked Oats

Mash @165 for 60 minutes.

The only thing I can think of is the calculator is not correct. When I m mash at 158 it says the final abv will be 3.10% but at 165 degrees it says 3.33% and that seems wrong, shouldn't I be getting more unfermentable sugars at 165 then at 158...

Thanks for any input!

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Most of those FG-predictions are pretty wonky, especially when pushing assumptions, like mash temperature, to their extreme. To get 3.3% ABV from a 1.029 beer you'd need 86% apparent attenuation, which sounds unlikely to me!

Unknown said...

Just finished brewing this with a couple of adjustments:
- 15 min boil (my standard for ales). Hops added at 7 min (no whirlpool ability on my system).
- added 14oz Munich II (Weyermann) for that mid malty note
- 2.5:1 ratio of Mosaic to Blanc
- going to do a "double" dry hop (cryo Mosaic and regular Blanc 48 hours in, then traditional Mosaic pellets a few days before kegging (looking for best of both worlds from both Mosaic formats)

Ended up at 1.032. Smells great! Thanks again!

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Excited to hear how it turns out! I have a beer on tap now that is 2:1 Mosaic to Hallertau Blanc that is much closer to what I was aiming for. Cheers!

Unknown said...

How are you feeling about S 04 as your house yeast? I'd given up on dry yeast, but you're inspiring me to rethink it.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

We're getting a pitch of RVA Manchester (their 1318 equivalent) for a few beers. Using a few blends with S-04 for a few others, and going to try the Lallemand New England too. Rather take the pressure off repitching too much to start, and give us a greater range.

Unknown said...

Right on. Have you done any side by side comparisons between the yeasts? I couldn't find a blog post on it.. Good luck with the brewery! Cheers!

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

Never done a split batch, but after ~10 beers with each I have a pretty good sense of them. They both let the varietal character of the hops shine better than Trois or Conan. 1318 has a bit more ester character though. S-04 can be a little dull, but it works well when you have great hops and/or other flavors at work.

Unknown said...

Hi Mike,

Really big fan of your blog from the UK here. I started all grain brewing this year and your blog has really inspired me.

I'm really interested in brewing low ABV beers too and thinking of doing something essentially using this method, but also inspired by your Vienna Session IPA...

What do you think of the following?:

Vienna 63%
Pale Rye Malt 16%
Golden Naked Oats 16%
Light Crystal 5%

Mash 45mins at 73C (163F)

Boil 45mins

Expected OG - 1.030

Yeast - S 04

Target FG - 1.010ish (67%ish AA) - 2.6% ABV

SRM 6.2. Late hop/hopstand to about 40 IBUs with Mosaic (+ a little Citra, maybe).

My questions:

1. How is the grain bill? Would a greater percentage of oats/rye be better? Could I/should I add some wheat to build more body/mouthfeel? Or is it already too complicated? I'm a novice!

2. Is my mash temp high enough keep attenuation to 67%ish? (Can't find any useful online calculators/formulas for affect of mash temp on attenuation! So i am essentially guessing)

3. Can you recommend a better dry yeast (lazy I know!) for this beer than S 04? Low attenuation, high flocculation, I guess. Windsor maybe?

Any other criticism/advice, also much appreciated!

Cheers, and very best of luck with the brewery. It's a shame that I am too far away to be able to visit.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

looks good to me!

1. When you aim for low OGs there will always be a trade-off. In this case body vs. malt flavor. I'd suggest brewing as is and then adjusting if you rebrew.

2. Attenuation at the extremes is difficult to predict. With the lower enzymatic power of Vienna, you may end up with a high FG than that. High temperatures speed-up conversion, but also denaturing.

3. I haven't used Windsor in years, but it seems like it would be a reasonable choice!

Best of luck and let me know how it turns out!

Unknown said...

Thanks very much for the feedback!

Your approval gives me confidence! I'll give it a go.


DJ of the Dead said...

Hi Mike,

I've got this bubbling away in the FV now. Made a couple of adjustments to your recipe - 250g of Munich & using your suggestion of 2:1 ratio for the Mosaic & HB. I was just wondering how many volumes of CO2 you carbonated too? Mouthfeel is so important with these low ABV beers so want to get this spot on. I don't have the ability to keg so I'll be bottling this one.


The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I like lower carbonation for beers like this ~2.1-2.2 volumes is right for me. You can always aim slightly higher, easier to swirl out a little if it is too high for you. Let me know how it turns out!

Anonymous said...

Hey Mike, dumb question, but do you mill the Golden Naked Oats? I’ve seen conflicting reports on whether or not they need to be milled or mashed whole. What is your process?

Unknown said...

Made this recipe with some minor tweaks about 3 weeks ago, and finally getting to taste the carbed final product (which is ironically now almost crystal clear!). My recipe was the same as yours with the following exceptions:

*Grist - 59% GWM/Rye, 27% Simpson/Golden Naked Oats, 14% Mecca Grade/Vanora (Vienna)
*Hops - Add'l 2oz Mosaic dry hop at day 6

OG - 1.028
FG - 1.012
ABV - 2.1%, Kegged - Day 8 (very hazy)

Great aroma/flavor without feeling like hoppy water. Incredible mouthfeel for a 2.1% beer with nice lasting bitterness throughout. Faint nutty malt aroma from the GNO, and some honey/cracker malt in there from the Vienna. Really enjoyable beer Mike--thank you for posting! Wish I could've made this earlier in the summer :)

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

I mill everything other than flaked grains, smaller particle size will help speed conversion and increase extraction regardless of the grain. You could probably get away without it given their small size and lack of husk though.

I'll have to add some Vienna for my next attempt!

Phil said...

Hey Mike,

Going to try this on the weekend.

When you say that next time you would go for a Mosaic to Hallertau Blanc ratio of 2:1, do you mean you would double the amount of Mosaic or have a similar overall quantity of hops but at this ratio (so more Mosaic and less HB)?

Thanks for the help.

The Mad Fermentationist (Mike) said...

2 ounces of Mosaic for every 1 ounce of Hallertau Blanc. Best of luck!

robotinc said...

I just brewed this, updated based on the comments:
60% rye
23% gno
12% vienna
5% rice hulls

2/1 hop ratio 2.1% ABV

Hops are lovely, and I am very stoked on the body! I was even able to fly sparge.

Thanks for keeping the blog up, there are a lot of gems in here.