tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post5385500434397572725..comments2024-02-23T15:34:32.816-05:00Comments on The Mad Fermentationist - Homebrewing Blog: Putting Beer Marketing Before Flavor (Rant)The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comBlogger35125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-89605260359614512592013-08-22T10:12:43.667-04:002013-08-22T10:12:43.667-04:00Just got in to homebrewing and your site in genera...Just got in to homebrewing and your site in general.<br /><br />While I agree with a lot of what you say here. I must raise exception with the BrewDog comment. Only a very small fraction of their portfolio are giant eisbock. <br />Their single hopped IPA ranges are fantastic example of helping to inform the customer (mostly not a lot of homebrewers) about hop varieties and their taste. A lot of their stuff warrants merit, and they've kept a handful of regular beers (Punk IPA, and Dead Pony Club for example) that are good standard beers, in an American Craft Beer movement style. They should be commended for pushing the boundaries in the UK market that has always been very conservative.<br /><br />No I don't work for them either! ;)<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-20506440383818962172011-01-25T20:31:04.951-05:002011-01-25T20:31:04.951-05:00I agree whole heartedly. I'm a big fan of DFH ...I agree whole heartedly. I'm a big fan of DFH and have been for years. But sometimes I taste one of their beers and believe they're just making something for the sake of being clever. For example "Raison D'Etre". I get the cleverness of the name... but it's just not a good beer. Overly sweet and unbalanced.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13538488071624887779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-44534490020072585832011-01-25T10:58:47.633-05:002011-01-25T10:58:47.633-05:00"Just because you don't like a beer, the ..."Just because you don't like a beer, the packaging or price doesn't give you the previlage to bash it."<br /><br />It seems a little overwrought to suggest that stating an opinion, even a strong one, is a "privilege"; and especially to suggest that said "privilege" is one that should be refereed by the manufacturers.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-33973108990698314732011-01-24T17:58:49.744-05:002011-01-24T17:58:49.744-05:00Ron,this post was less about the specific brewers ...Ron,this post was less about the specific brewers and more about a trend in craft brewing I've noticed. I'll admit I've only had a handful of Short's beers, and I may have been too quick to judge based on some off bottles. In the comments it seems like someone took umbrage with just about every one of the breweries I mentioned, we've all had different experiences and different tastes. Sorry to offend.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-89354445945388886842011-01-24T17:10:29.454-05:002011-01-24T17:10:29.454-05:00Mike -
I undedrstand and respect your views. Howe...Mike -<br /><br />I undedrstand and respect your views. However, to quote what you said <br />"My complaint isn't that DFH or Short's try weird things (obviously I love the same stuff), it is that they don't do it very well. It should be about using weird ingredients to enhance the character of the beer rather than just to have something to plaster on the label". <br /><br />I respectively disagree with that comment. Joe Short does many beers well. You don't win numerous awards at GABF for not doing beer well. Not sure why you feel the need to bash a small brewer like Shorts, but I think it's unfounded and short sighted. Just because you don't like a beer, the packaging or price doesn't give you the previlage to bash it. <br /><br />Me thinks that the BYO articles and Brewing Network shows you've done has made your head a little to big.<br /><br />Cheers,<br /><br />RonUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12587612821849208601noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-53412706359089371692011-01-22T01:33:25.713-05:002011-01-22T01:33:25.713-05:00@Bosala said
Does having a surviving indigenous b...@Bosala said<br /><br />Does having a surviving indigenous beer culture make you 'backward'? Brewdog have modelled themselves exclusively on american craft brewers. Is this the measure of 'forward thinking'? Do you not think that the above view comes off as a little parochial itself?<br /><br />alot of traditions in various cultures are rife with bullshit. i know i probably sounds like a xenophobe but america makes tbe best beer in the world because we make all styles.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01045647160974853694noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-82017442604200317952011-01-21T15:07:14.248-05:002011-01-21T15:07:14.248-05:00One thing these one-off beers are doing is making ...One thing these one-off beers are doing is making more shelf space for the craft segment. If they can hold the space in small liquor stores, maybe the "specialty beers" will give way to more styles that don't get publicity like Dortmunder, small beers and naturally dark lagers.<br /><br />I usually only buy beer in stores when there's a BJCP exam coming up. So i also don't feel like I have much room to complain about packaged beers.Ben Fogthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05373522212349323783noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-39869243311352495362011-01-20T15:45:07.183-05:002011-01-20T15:45:07.183-05:00Just got word that Bitches Brew is coming to Canad...Just got word that Bitches Brew is coming to Canada. Retail price will be $37.50/750ml.<br /><br />Good grief. I remember how Sam used to boast that DFH doesn't advertise... maybe not in the traditional sense, but c'mon, talk about hype!Markhttp://www.alesclub.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-37252300912541503352011-01-20T13:54:12.487-05:002011-01-20T13:54:12.487-05:00Couldn't agree more, and in fact, these very s...Couldn't agree more, and in fact, these very same beers are in my personal rant file as well.<br /><br />I listened to The Brewing Network interview with the founder of Shmaltz brewing, and hearing his attitude toward beer in general made me a non-consumer for life.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-55240293801605773542011-01-20T12:42:14.876-05:002011-01-20T12:42:14.876-05:00I love the rant... I really do believe that we hav...I love the rant... I really do believe that we have a ton in common in our view here.Jimhttp://www.bottlesandmore.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-23519796638172685222011-01-20T11:10:52.000-05:002011-01-20T11:10:52.000-05:00"How about Saison (du) Buff? parsl(e)y sage r..."How about Saison (du) Buff? parsl(e)y sage rosemary and t(h)yme, bad song, worse beer"<br /><br />Oddly enough, this beer wasn't awful. I set my expectations extremely low and was pleasantly surprised to find out it didn't taste like chicken marinade. In fact, I'd call it good for what it was. Good enough to have a second glass? Nope.Adrian Avgerinosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-33315618487811537092011-01-20T08:15:02.201-05:002011-01-20T08:15:02.201-05:00With Saison du Buff it was silly to base the selec...With Saison du Buff it was silly to base the selection on a song, that said I thought they were subtle enough (especially with the rosemary) that I didn't mind it.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-65761030026285123052011-01-19T22:58:44.581-05:002011-01-19T22:58:44.581-05:00preach it brotha
I just about whacked my room ma...preach it brotha<br /><br /> I just about whacked my room mate over the head when he brought home a "Sahtea" a few weeks ago, drain pour.<br /><br />How about Saison Buff? parsly sage rosemary and tyme, bad song, worse beerPaul!https://www.blogger.com/profile/02305373848929479630noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-1081465877001156522011-01-19T20:49:33.817-05:002011-01-19T20:49:33.817-05:00Bah, you and your spelling... fixed.Bah, you and your spelling... fixed.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-77923596482391474762011-01-19T18:57:12.540-05:002011-01-19T18:57:12.540-05:00Just wondering. When you name Toregs brewery, do y...Just wondering. When you name Toregs brewery, do you mean Troegs? <br /><br />Enjoying a few Nugget Nectars as I type. :)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-65022698901722231932011-01-19T17:43:08.154-05:002011-01-19T17:43:08.154-05:00I couldn't agree more, although I would probab...I couldn't agree more, although I would probably go further and say I think a lot of the imperial style beers are of the same vein. Adding more of anything to a beer does not necessarily make it better, more interesting, more complex, more enjoyable, etc. and often they come across as a way to cash in on a marketing opportunity to charge more money for a very generic beer boiled down to a higher gravity and higher IBUs. <br /><br />I think you also make an excellent defense of the right way to go about making admittedly extreme beers. If they are quality products and match the quality of your standard products then it makes sense to put them out there. However, if they are substandard products it's abusive to your customers to use the reputation of your other beers to convince people to pay a good chunk of money for something that you know does not meet expectations.Adam Kielichhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01352776600084349395noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-28542203683013413232011-01-19T16:13:26.914-05:002011-01-19T16:13:26.914-05:00Great post. Examples from DFH to add--Black &...Great post. Examples from DFH to add--Black & Blue and Red & White. These beers combined to shake my DFH allegiance. I actually thought Sah-tea was quite good.<br />As for Bell's 10000, at least the brewer made a good product. The number of ingredients is a bit contrived because some are are just brand differences. I think this probably gave the brewer freedom to create a better beer while sticking to the marketing story. And, as you said, at least it was a tribute to homebrewing roots.DougRhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10305133016216707609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-77635469748394306882011-01-19T14:35:25.634-05:002011-01-19T14:35:25.634-05:00Slightly of topic, so forgive me. Is this really n...Slightly of topic, so forgive me. Is this really necessary?<br /><br /> @wyatt<br /><br />i think brewdog should get a pass on this as they make some awesome non-extreme beers and scotland/uk are kinda backwards in their thinking about beer to some extent.<br /><br /> Does having a surviving indigenous beer culture make you 'backward'? Brewdog have modelled themselves exclusively on american craft brewers. Is this the measure of 'forward thinking'? Do you not think that the above view comes off as a little parochial itself?<br /><br />@Mike<br />Interesting rant. I don't think we will ever escape the narrative aspect of these stunt beers. Too cheap and effective an approach.Matt Lhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13365926127453124876noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-19993384442714311152011-01-19T12:24:30.678-05:002011-01-19T12:24:30.678-05:00Pretty good post, mostly sums up the same feelings...Pretty good post, mostly sums up the same feelings I have had for the last couple years. I am tired of gimmick beers that don't deliver the goods.<br /><br />As a homebrewer, over the last 2 years, I have been simplifying my recipes, reducing the variety of styles I brew, and improving my processes. The results have been astounding - the quality and consistency has improved drastically, and I love everything I brew (from 4-4.5% session beers to big stouts and barleywines).<br /><br />I am all for experimentation, but you need to learn to walk before you can fly. And if you are always experimenting, you never really get good at anything, so you have to rely on marketing and hype to sell your beer... which really doesn't seem to jive with the craft beer ethos, does it?Markhttp://www.alesclub.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-78589195420714861602011-01-19T12:19:24.519-05:002011-01-19T12:19:24.519-05:00i agree with your quality over novelty sentiment, ...i agree with your quality over novelty sentiment, mike. i think this extends to all one-off batches, including many high alcohol/"imperial"/"extreme"/barrel aged beers that are haphazardly thrown together and brewed once as a "limited edition." i don't have much hope for this trend letting up any time soon, since the beer drinking public is currently infatuated with the obscure and overhyped.ssfhttp://overcarbed.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-13683840066712739192011-01-19T11:36:57.391-05:002011-01-19T11:36:57.391-05:00It sounds like some people are misinterpreting my ...It sounds like some people are misinterpreting my rant. I’m pro-weird/interesting beers if they are done well, I just feel like many breweries are releasing beers that could have used a few more test batches (or simply weren't good ideas). You can’t brew with new ingredients/techniques (especially multiple) and expect to make a great beer on your first try. There is a big difference between brewing a beer with a flavor goal in mind, and solely adding ingredients for the purpose of marketing the beer.<br /><br />My concern is that people will try something from Dogfish Head and say, “Wow extreme beer is an obnoxious fad for beer nerds.” When there are “weird” beers that a large number of people would enjoy; Hunahpu’s Imperial Stout does a really good job of combining chocolate/chile/vanilla/cinnamon to make a wonderfully complex beer that is still drinkable (although I do have Issues with Cigar City’s quality control).<br /><br />As a homebrewer I am in a very different position than a commercial brewery. For one, I’m not trying to sell my beer. I’m trying to learn (and share that knowledge), not convince people to buy my beer. If I make a bad batch (and I do) the only one who suffers is me.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-78369043456230939522011-01-19T11:33:35.140-05:002011-01-19T11:33:35.140-05:00I agree with most of the blog post, but I think we...I agree with most of the blog post, but I think we should let these breweries do what they want and leave it to the market to sort out. I'm not going to buy Genesis 15:15 because it sounds like a terrible way to formulate a recipe, but if others want to try it that's fine. Same goes for Short's - if they can sustain a business making that stuff then good for them, otherwise they'll have to change or die. It gets tiresome seeing shelves and taps filled with wacky stuff I don't want to drink, but in the end I'll either have to live with it, or it'll disappear as people get bored and go back to looking for balance and flavor over story.Iannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-43405625884011132912011-01-19T11:12:33.299-05:002011-01-19T11:12:33.299-05:00Excellent post-but when I look at your recipe list...Excellent post-but when I look at your recipe list and see things like "Lightly spiced, sour, butternut squash, brown ale" and "No-boil Berliner Weisse 2 - Half with Cabernet juice" i've always thought that you were pretty much in this group of which you speak.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05887953789719371513noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-11270597497071343512011-01-19T11:10:22.660-05:002011-01-19T11:10:22.660-05:00Good little rant, Mike. I agree with your sentimen...Good little rant, Mike. I agree with your sentiments. Overall, I drink commercial beer mainly to be satisfied, not stimulated. Occasionally, I'll try something strange if the price is reasonable. I guess that explains why I've only tried a couple of Dogfishhead's offerings (expensive+strange=nonpurchase).<br /><br />In the end, my main frustration is not with the brewery, but with the consumers (i.e. "beer geeks") who desire these freak-show liquors. The pages and pages of leg humping you see over at BeerAdvocate is much more annoying than any marketing crap.<br /><br />Be excited to see your favorite brewery make a chipotle bacon sour lager. Just leave the hyperbolic crap at home. Simply using food stuffs or wood does not a world class brewery make.Adrian Avgerinosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-12400200293903483292011-01-18T23:02:02.265-05:002011-01-18T23:02:02.265-05:00It breaks down to the beer doesn't taste good,...It breaks down to the beer doesn't taste good, so the process isn't important. Unless you are taking that as inspiration to make one of your own using those methods and hopefully creating something actually good.dangerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13168224173449593176noreply@blogger.com