tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post302862668420258173..comments2024-02-23T15:34:32.816-05:00Comments on The Mad Fermentationist - Homebrewing Blog: Stolen Microbes - Lambic with 3 Fonteinen DregsThe Mad Fermentationist (Mike)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-79296069326230867302017-03-15T06:50:49.391-04:002017-03-15T06:50:49.391-04:00Ok, thank you!Ok, thank you!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17340456446165409484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-24359732575200962802017-03-12T12:11:33.120-04:002017-03-12T12:11:33.120-04:00The Brett will work even if it is added later with...The Brett will work even if it is added later without oxygen; the strain that is the most suited to the conditions will thrive. This may or may not produce the best flavor. A small starter culture with several dregs will work, just taste each bottle first before adding to the culture. I added dregs from an off bottle of 3 Fonteinen Gueuze to a starter I was making for Modern Times, had to dump it.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-70979094817435606242017-03-05T16:01:41.465-05:002017-03-05T16:01:41.465-05:00The reason for i have tought of a starter for the ...The reason for i have tought of a starter for the dregs it's not because i want to ferment the whole batch with the dregs alone. I was thinking for a "starter" because i would like to pitch many many bottle dregs and possibly give the bugs of the dregs the access to the oxygen at the time of pitching the whole batch in the brewday. So, as long as i cannot drink all of those bottles the same day of the brewday the idea was to go with this starter...<br /><br />Pitching the dregs directly wihtout the starter would consists probably in one bottle maybe (or maybe not) pitched in the brewday, but all of the others maybe some days after.<br /><br />I would like, in my idea, to have a batch on which the dregs should play an important role (not as much as in your case), but a very big role, anyway. <br /><br />Pitching the dregs days after would not give them access to the oxygen, is it correct?<br /> <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17340456446165409484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-50647850665302309442017-03-05T09:36:14.957-05:002017-03-05T09:36:14.957-05:00Sure, assuming the lambic blend is fresh the Sacch...Sure, assuming the lambic blend is fresh the Sacch it contains will protect the wort while the other microbes continue to grow. Honestly you could pitch the dregs directly without a starter in this scenario and make a fine beer. Remember to taste the beers first before adding them to the culture!The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-4212536547475321462017-03-03T09:18:13.659-05:002017-03-03T09:18:13.659-05:00I'm aiming to produde my first "lambic&qu...I'm aiming to produde my first "lambic" and my will is to go with a big starter from many bottle dregs plus 1 pack of 3728 wyeast lambic blend for more security/consistency. They both will be pitched in the primary. No aged hops but an IBU of about 5, infusion mash at 70°c. 60% pils + 33% flaked wheat + 6% maltodextrine. It will be a small batch of 3 gallons.<br /><br /><br />I am doubtful about dimensioning and stepping the bottle dregs starter. My will is to use 3 fonteinen oude gueuze along with kriek de ranke and some orval. The fact is that all of these dregs will be added not all in a once, as you did, but as long as i will drink the beers, maybe in 2 weeks for about 4 75cl bottles, let's say. These should be the schedule:<br /><br />day one: 2 orval bottle dregs for 25cl starter.<br />day four: 1 75cl bottle dregs added (de ranke, that should be younger than 3 fonteinen)<br />day six: 1 75cl bottle dregs added (3 fonteinen)<br />day eight: starter stepped to 50cl<br />day ten: 1 75cl bottle dregs added (3 fonteinen)<br />day fourteen: brewday. pitch the whole starter along with the wy3728.<br /><br /><br />Apart from all the unpredictability of the process itself could be this un accectable way to proceed?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17340456446165409484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-87224592544159852912016-12-31T09:51:10.841-05:002016-12-31T09:51:10.841-05:00I let it age in primary on the yeast. Head space d...I let it age in primary on the yeast. Head space doesn't change the amount of air that gets through the airlock or stopper. Head space is an issue in barrels where the wood not in contact with beer dries out and creates gaps between the staves. The only time you have to be careful with a partially filled carboy is when pulling samples, you could always flush the head space with CO2 after if you were paranoid (but I don't bother)! I've never gotten acetic character from monthly samples, so I don't worry about it.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-44653020384991645662016-12-30T21:25:00.555-05:002016-12-30T21:25:00.555-05:00This looks awesome! Did you rack to secondary usin...This looks awesome! Did you rack to secondary using a smaller carboy or let it age the two years in the six gallon better bottle? I've heard lambics might rest on the original yeast cake their whole lives. But five gallons of beer sitting for so long in a six gallon carboy makes me worry about oxygen exposure. <br />Thanks,<br />JasonUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15389144145727874260noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-80139603921433139042016-06-09T08:29:53.939-04:002016-06-09T08:29:53.939-04:00Nothing too special. I aerated, but didn't lea...Nothing too special. I aerated, but didn't leave it open (to discourage Acetobacter). I stepped out up after about 10 days if I recall correctly (something like 4 oz to 16 oz). Best of luck! The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-47551088311574074652016-06-06T19:39:31.010-04:002016-06-06T19:39:31.010-04:00Hey Mike,
Can you go into some detail on your ste...Hey Mike,<br /><br />Can you go into some detail on your steps for the starter you made for this beer? Did you take any steps to encourage growth of some microbes and limit others? Multiple steps? I can't seem to find much info on stepping up lambic dregs for primary fermentation. Much appreciated.<br /><br />JeremyJeremynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-4025543086648748652016-04-30T18:46:20.422-04:002016-04-30T18:46:20.422-04:00Mine went really sulfur-diaper at nine months (whe...Mine went really sulfur-diaper at nine months (when I switched to a solid bung) and needed more time to off-gas once I switched back to an airlock. If yours has a stable gravity along with good flavor, no reason to sit on it!The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-79915938055210476242016-04-27T07:59:59.665-04:002016-04-27T07:59:59.665-04:00Hi, looking at your timeline, you seem to have bot...Hi, looking at your timeline, you seem to have bottled this at the 2 year mark. Is there a reason for that? I ask that because I have a similar beer thats a year old currently, used 3F dregs also. I'm getting lemon and plenty of funk at the moment, the 3F dregs seem to have given it that sherbet mouthfeel. Should I sit on it for another year? <br /><br />PH. Pewtherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00309813808120721777noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-81002699943531192352015-11-29T15:41:06.223-05:002015-11-29T15:41:06.223-05:00I was planning on growing up a big starter of bott...I was planning on growing up a big starter of bottle dregs for my next lambic. Maybe I'll split that in half and add some when I add the maltodextrin. I also added about half a pint of my flanders red last night to try and get some more variety in there. Thanks Mike!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18208865959428361372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-23372886021410275072015-11-29T14:45:24.256-05:002015-11-29T14:45:24.256-05:00Maltodextrin certainly could help, especially with...Maltodextrin certainly could help, especially with the acidity. Bottle dregs from a couple of your favorite unpasteurized sours could be a nice boost as well!The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-54934005054130883812015-11-24T11:34:57.964-05:002015-11-24T11:34:57.964-05:00Hi Mike
I just checked my lambic that has been si...Hi Mike<br /><br />I just checked my lambic that has been sitting in the fermenter for nearly 18 months now. I made the rookie mistake of fermenting with us-05 first then racking to a carboy 7 days later and adding the roeselare pack.<br /><br />My problem is there is almost zero sourness or funk. There's the remains of a very mild pellicle floating on top so the brett definitely had a go. It's really disheartening because I have a 8 month old flanders red that's tasting great. Do you think adding maltodextrin could help along or is it a lost cause? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18208865959428361372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-84022065281791342472015-03-06T17:19:57.593-05:002015-03-06T17:19:57.593-05:00I don't go out of my way to add extra oxygen/a...I don't go out of my way to add extra oxygen/air to my aging sour beers. There's a risk of adding too much and producing excessive acetic acid or ethyl acetate. Brett still produces everything but without it.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-37987536861009886612015-03-06T07:13:34.161-05:002015-03-06T07:13:34.161-05:00How are you controlling the oxygen intake? I remem...How are you controlling the oxygen intake? I remember that you tried the wooden peg method but abandoned it after the peg got stuck in the carboy.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07267220942525605369noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-3780679568278345342014-01-21T22:06:18.098-05:002014-01-21T22:06:18.098-05:00So I am about to brew my first Sour once the weath...So I am about to brew my first Sour once the weather warms up, and a friend and I are going to pitch the dregs form at least 4 beers. Probably some Cuvee Renee, Supplication, Orval, probably an oakshire wild or something like that. My friend got a bottle of Juliet and I want to convince him to use that too. I was wondering if this was enough with a normal sacch strain or if I should get a Wyeast blend too? I want to be successful but I like the idea of using these for the complexity.<br />ThanksAlbrighthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11003457968995016918noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-445963510152159422013-12-10T10:45:16.825-05:002013-12-10T10:45:16.825-05:00It was pretty damn sulfury for a period there, som...It was pretty damn sulfury for a period there, something I tasted in a recent bottle of 3F Oude Gueuze. I'd gone to a solid stopped, but switched back to an airlock. The aroma is mostly gone now, tasting pretty good (decent tartness, classic lemon-funk) but I'll give it a few more months before bottling.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-88317561431158872532013-12-10T09:11:55.809-05:002013-12-10T09:11:55.809-05:00It's been 15 months. How is this tasting now?...It's been 15 months. How is this tasting now?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-74540605052707107752013-07-03T01:00:40.612-04:002013-07-03T01:00:40.612-04:00Fermenting with dregs is always a gamble. Until a ...Fermenting with dregs is always a gamble. Until a month or so ago this batch was tasting fantastic (very 3 Foteinen). Sadly the last sample I pulled took a turn for the sulfury. Still not even a year old, so plenty of time left for it to turn a corner. We shall see.<br /><br />A good middle ground would be to pitch both the blend and dregs. You'll get some consistency from the commercial yeast, and added complexity from the truly wild bugs.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-56809771178389744782013-07-02T22:51:34.201-04:002013-07-02T22:51:34.201-04:00Any update on this? I just got back from a Belgium...Any update on this? I just got back from a Belgium beer tour and brought back a few bombers of 3F among others and am wanting to give this a shot. Think your yeast approach is better than using a wyeast lambic smack pack.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07626246610345343910noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-14091785599645777652012-09-14T16:28:17.667-04:002012-09-14T16:28:17.667-04:00Sounds awesome! I recently brewed my first sour an...Sounds awesome! I recently brewed my first sour and used your blog for a great reference. I think I went with the wheat dry yeast (safale?) for my sacc strain and pitched dregs from Cantillon, Hanssen's, Lindeman's, and Castle.<br /><br />Thanks for all of the info! Maybe eventually I'll be brave enough to use wild DC yeast on purpose some day.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17428410277953020650noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-91364330828999688672012-09-12T12:38:50.591-04:002012-09-12T12:38:50.591-04:00I dropped the ball on getting the White Labs Brett...I dropped the ball on getting the White Labs Brett III when it was out but frequent mentions of this brewery and your post inspired me to seek out a bottle (seemingly the only one in Brooklyn) of the Kriek for use in my first Lambic style brew. I also used your sour bottle dregs post to grab a few bottles for possible inoculation. Thanks for all your hard work!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-23548189358342188502012-09-11T11:11:15.517-04:002012-09-11T11:11:15.517-04:00Wish I had a nice mix of dregs like that. Let me k...Wish I had a nice mix of dregs like that. Let me know if you have any to get rid of ;)Justin Dexheimerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07394008130276249885noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-10812240309543690232012-09-11T06:49:53.969-04:002012-09-11T06:49:53.969-04:00You are correct, but there are two reasons I'm...You are correct, but there are two reasons I'm not that concerned about the slightly elevated temperature. <br /><br />Lambic brewers are dealing with a much larger volume of wort than I was. They target cooling in less than 24 hours, and that's where this batch ended up.<br /><br />I pitched propagated microbes, so I'm not relying entirely on those that happen to fall into the wort. <br /><br />That's what I hope anyway, I'll have a better sense in a year or so.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.com