tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post225328209702024486..comments2024-02-23T15:34:32.816-05:00Comments on The Mad Fermentationist - Homebrewing Blog: Rye Saison with BrettThe Mad Fermentationist (Mike)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-82460698220358017772017-06-21T18:34:01.931-04:002017-06-21T18:34:01.931-04:00This beer didn't have much in terms of hop aro...This beer didn't have much in terms of hop aromatics, so I wasn't in a hurry. I was also bottling this, so I had to be certain fermentation really was complete. For the NZ Saison, I was kegging so the Brett didn't have to be totally done. Lots of options depending on your goals!The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-55919483384724850182017-06-19T16:32:59.401-04:002017-06-19T16:32:59.401-04:00I used the same grist as this Rye Saison recipe. ...I used the same grist as this Rye Saison recipe. Subbed out the yeast with White Labs WLP645 Brettanomyces Claussenii and WLP590 French Saison Ale Yeast and put both in at once in the primary. 70 F for four days then ramped up to 75 F. I was thinking to wait at least 4 weeks and see how the fermentation is progressing. It seems you waited much longer like 7 months before bottling. I seen you use shorter time for Saison Yeast and Brett fermentation in other recipes like New Zealand Saison flavored with NZ wine. That was fermented only 3 weeks before bottling. Why and what is your thoughts or goals on these two very different approaches to Saison yeast with Brett?<br /><br />On a side note your New Zealand Saison Recipe turnout to be my best Saison I ever brewed. I split a five gallon batch with one getting NZ Sauvignon Blanc wine Wyeast PC3031 French Saison and Brett C while the other got Wyeast 3711 and NZ SB wine. The Brett version was way better. The brett seemed to meld the flavors together seemlessily while the none brett version was okay but the beer and wine flavors were two separate flavors and not as harmoniously supporting each other. The wine was added at bottling 1 in 20 wine to beer ratio. I bottled the non brett beer 4 weeks after brew day and the brett version 8 weeks after brew day. The Brett version also had a way better shelf life. The non brett version flavor started to fall off after 10 weeks were as the brett version held up for 6 months. Plan to use brett in most of my Saisons. Better taste and Shelf life. I been using Brett C to avoid too much funk. Blvd Brewing Brett Saison can get a poopy smell (taste is fine but the smell still is off putting)after a year I am trying to avoid.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05470125474138293919noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-8871670868878487332016-11-06T07:47:10.364-05:002016-11-06T07:47:10.364-05:00McKenzie's Saison Vautou calls for a small cha...McKenzie's Saison Vautou calls for a small charge of Hallertau Tradition at 15 minutes. It isn't something I'd usually do, but certainly won't hurt. Impossible for me to say if any of the compounds contributed by that late addition carried through in some modified form to the finished beer. It certainly isn't overtly hoppy, and McKenzie's has produced some dry-hopped variants of the beer.<br /><br />Recently had my second to last bottle of the version with Dark Saison 4 dregs, turned out to be one of my favorite few homebrewers. Has that great lemon and mineral thing with just the right level of funkiness for my palate.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-77878138778950496532016-11-03T12:01:02.218-04:002016-11-03T12:01:02.218-04:00one thing i don't understand it's the choi...one thing i don't understand it's the choice of going with late hop charges in beers i know that i will go aging for so many months. Is it something that has come through in the flavor with some evidence when you have tasted it almost one year after? It's not preferable going with dry hopping at the end of secondary? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17340456446165409484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-10120421611728917662016-09-12T22:00:32.296-04:002016-09-12T22:00:32.296-04:00No hurry, but you can certainly rack now if you do...No hurry, but you can certainly rack now if you don't mind bringing some yeast over with it.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-30532783278479375082016-09-11T14:43:00.224-04:002016-09-11T14:43:00.224-04:00Did a slightly lower alcohol version of this (1.05...Did a slightly lower alcohol version of this (1.050 with sugar) and fermented with WLP 565. 9 days in I am at 1.006. OK to transfer to secondary and add brett?<br /><br />Miles<br />MilesMcLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03086145152223020125noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-37659303834984054842012-02-06T22:22:43.711-05:002012-02-06T22:22:43.711-05:00Brett certainly needs a few months, luckily it doe...Brett certainly needs a few months, luckily it doesn't need much gravity. Surprised that at a pH of 4 it is so sour, many "clean" beers finish in the low 4s. Brett really won't make much acid on its own (unless exposed to oxygen), if you want more acidity you will need dregs or a culture of lactic acid bacteria.<br /><br />Racking is up to you. I like to rack for a mellower Brett character. Aging in primary on the yeast helps the Brett make a funkier more rustic character that lambics are known for.<br /><br />So up to you, all depends on what you are aiming for. Good luck on all the sours!The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-55528613075788709632012-02-06T21:21:30.356-05:002012-02-06T21:21:30.356-05:00Brewed this from the BYO article, using WLP670 (co...Brewed this from the BYO article, using WLP670 (combo sacch and bret). OG 58. After three weeks at 72% SG is 1.007 = 88% ADF. pH is 4.0. Lactic acid taste is strong with little or no brett funk.<br /><br />Q: At this point would you recommend:<br />a)racking to secondary and adding dregs from something else,<br />b)racking to secondary and waiting for further drop in gravity (seems like brett will take the pH down substantially further,<br />c) leave in primary and wait for more funk to develop,<br />or???<br />Thanks Mike. You've gotten a lot of us started down this trail. I now have 6 sours in fermentation due to your example.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-43965716334979555812011-12-18T07:36:40.640-05:002011-12-18T07:36:40.640-05:00McKenzie's uses Saison II from White Labs (566...McKenzie's uses Saison II from White Labs (566). If you don't mind buying two strains you could do Brett C and B. Or just go Brett C and toss in the dregs from a bottle of Orval or another beer with a funkier Brett. Let me know how it turns out!The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-75183819551345330642011-12-17T18:57:21.282-05:002011-12-17T18:57:21.282-05:00I would like to brew this. If you had to use White...I would like to brew this. If you had to use White labs or Wyeast, which strains would you choose?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-15210642020709223652011-11-25T17:10:06.769-05:002011-11-25T17:10:06.769-05:00I'm pretty happy with where this batch is righ...I'm pretty happy with where this batch is right now. You certainly could cool the mash off a couple degrees to lighten it up a bit and reduce the funk, but as a stronger saison I don't necessarily want it at 1.000.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-2031089281428694382011-11-25T16:51:09.209-05:002011-11-25T16:51:09.209-05:00How did this batch turn out after two months in th...How did this batch turn out after two months in the bottles? Any changes you might make in the recipe? E.g., I see you suggested 145*F maash temp in BYO article.<br />THANKS. Brewing soon.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-12432020573674855202011-09-29T22:05:40.161-04:002011-09-29T22:05:40.161-04:00Long time reader, first time poster. I just snagge...Long time reader, first time poster. I just snagged some ECY-03 and ECY-08 a week ago. I already have used 1/2 the ECY-08 on a Pumpkin Saison. I am seriously considering the Rye Saison for the ECY-03. I might also split the ECY-03 and do 1/2 Rye and 1/2 traditional. Depends on fermentor and kegging space.<br /> Keep on doing what your doing.<br /><br />CheersBrian Zenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06237149849940660561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-17792327654911840022011-09-21T20:17:28.190-04:002011-09-21T20:17:28.190-04:00We did not reyeast when we bottled. If you want t...We did not reyeast when we bottled. If you want to pitch either more of the Brett or more of the primary strain would be the safest bet, although anything alcohol tolerant and flocculant will get the job done.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-76372366241440252132011-09-21T15:35:53.102-04:002011-09-21T15:35:53.102-04:00Will you be reyeasting for the bottles? If so, wha...Will you be reyeasting for the bottles? If so, what yeast will you be using?Johnnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-51298524317739294542011-09-15T08:33:38.543-04:002011-09-15T08:33:38.543-04:00Good luck! Is all I've got.
We're finally...Good luck! Is all I've got.<br /><br />We're finally bottling tonight, coincidence.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-233577899702155202011-09-15T02:16:00.401-04:002011-09-15T02:16:00.401-04:00Yes, actually, I am. It has been in the works for...Yes, actually, I am. It has been in the works for a while but I finally have some brett and a day off to brew so tomorrow morning, I'm going at it. Anything to add? :)ReverendTenHighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16204236468709967565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-68800838551197669732011-07-26T22:30:47.183-04:002011-07-26T22:30:47.183-04:00150 F for 75 minutes with a ratio of 1.17 quarts o...150 F for 75 minutes with a ratio of 1.17 quarts of water per pound.<br /><br />Planning on brewing it?The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-87145192637202175462011-07-26T21:57:37.620-04:002011-07-26T21:57:37.620-04:00What did you mash this at?What did you mash this at?ReverendTenHighhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16204236468709967565noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-33223626326777810002011-07-18T13:04:08.233-04:002011-07-18T13:04:08.233-04:00We almost bottled it a couple weeks ago, but with ...We almost bottled it a couple weeks ago, but with a gravity still at 1.010 so I wanted to give it another month to see if it would drop lower. I thought the flavor was great, nice mix of pepper and funk. Hopefully it will be ready to bottle soon.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-115828020631646872011-07-18T11:26:49.380-04:002011-07-18T11:26:49.380-04:00Is this puppy still in secondary? If so how long ...Is this puppy still in secondary? If so how long do you plan to condition it? Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-71517862269933443142011-05-10T17:07:34.141-04:002011-05-10T17:07:34.141-04:00The fruitiness was chased off by the Brett pretty ...The fruitiness was chased off by the Brett pretty quickly, for most saison strains those temps wouldn’t be an issue. I just pulled a sample of the beer and it tastes great, but at ~1.008 it is still too sweet for me to bottle safely.<br /><br />I've used rye in a couple low gravity beers (a 100% Brett A petite saison and a dark mild), but nothing that small. Shouldn’t be a problem, nice to add some extra complexity to a table beer.<br /><br />I just did a second runnings lager over the weekend that got up to 1.042.<br /><br />Good luck on both of your batches.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-59555812120259711532011-05-10T16:01:10.564-04:002011-05-10T16:01:10.564-04:00I just made a saison last Saturday with 9# of Pils...I just made a saison last Saturday with 9# of Pilsner and 3# of Rye, using Wyeast's French Saison yeast. I wish I had come across this post before! You have inspired me to throw in the dregs of some brett bottles when I move the beer to a secondary. <br /><br />After collecting 6 gallons, my mash still had enough sugar that I could still make 3 gallons of a table beer at 1.030 at the same time. Do you have any experience with low gravity rye beers?<br /><br />Given your initial tasting of your beer, would you ferment this recipe at a lower temperature next time to keep the esters in check?Big City Brewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05754921384915519851noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-76003344573360979452011-03-14T12:05:25.839-04:002011-03-14T12:05:25.839-04:00I just had a similarly unpleasant sparge last week...I just had a similarly unpleasant sparge last weekend with 2 lbs of buckwheat. It took close to 90 minutes to collect the wort including stirring to resuspend the grain bed and multiple additions of rice hulls. The sugar should be is a fine addition that was our original plan anyway (although it would be tasty at the lower gravity as well).The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-56745171041263484832011-03-14T11:37:37.769-04:002011-03-14T11:37:37.769-04:00Brewed 11 gallons of this up this weekend, doubled...Brewed 11 gallons of this up this weekend, doubled your recipe and added an additional 1# of unmalted flaked rye. Had a hell of an issue with stuck sparges even after adding a pound of rice hulls, I need to replace the braided filter in my mash tun before the next brew session for sure. Missed the OG by a lot, at 1.055 now, likely due to bad sparging, my efficiency is usually very high, will probably boil ~3# corn sugar in water and add that a couple days into the fermentation.Danhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12721809374018252789noreply@blogger.com