tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post8646777822585584308..comments2024-02-23T15:34:32.816-05:00Comments on The Mad Fermentationist - Homebrewing Blog: Conan the IPA (and Yeast)The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comBlogger19125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-76696191454187981542016-02-08T17:19:31.064-05:002016-02-08T17:19:31.064-05:00CaraRed adds some flavor, but you could certainly ...CaraRed adds some flavor, but you could certainly drop it if you want a cleaner malt backbone. I like some sugar in bigger IPAs, but again you could drop it if you want. The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-56718860742519353122016-02-08T09:20:49.566-05:002016-02-08T09:20:49.566-05:00Do you think you could have similar results if you...Do you think you could have similar results if you cut the sugar and carared and dropped the mash temp to about 150 or so? Or did you find this strain benefits from a higher rest?<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07328033145039674839noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-57007262652378670612015-07-22T08:53:09.066-04:002015-07-22T08:53:09.066-04:00Had a 4 pack ( Heady Topper ) brought to me from t...Had a 4 pack ( Heady Topper ) brought to me from the brewery and kept cold the entire time ! I kept 1 oz in each of the 4 cans I drank and used the last part of those cans to make a starter. Several days and 2 more starters later I had a nice size yeast cake and pitched it into a Hoppy pale ale... basic 2 row, 3% Crystal 40, 10% Munich. Bittered to 35 IBu with simcoe then added 4 oz of citra and 4 oz of galaxy at @ 180 degrees and steeped for 30 mins. Cant wait to see how this turns out, the 63 degree fermentation is on day 4 and still going strong. Johnny in Texashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10348892531845767561noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-84081592996911250472014-03-17T16:28:23.274-04:002014-03-17T16:28:23.274-04:00http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/heady-topper-clone...http://www.brewtoad.com/recipes/heady-topper-clone-20 I just did a clone that I found on the web. It may not be the same but it made a kick ass IIPA. Grew the little yeasties from 2 cans. PMIhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08725994689724492701noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-72902791737204702552014-02-15T10:57:49.299-05:002014-02-15T10:57:49.299-05:00I'm not sure exactly what the water profile wo...I'm not sure exactly what the water profile worked out to, but for most hoppy beers I aim for around 100-150 PPM of both chloride and sulfate. In this case I had run out of gypsum and I didn't want to go too heavy on the magnesium (Epsom salt), so I may have been a bit higher on the chloride than I usually would have been.<br /><br />Chloride adds body/fullness to a beer, and rounds out the flavor. Sulfate makes the bitterness crisper/firmer. I'm not a believer that the ratio is especially important, raw numbers have a much bigger impact.<br /><br />Just what works for my tastes.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-38725201753985699592014-02-14T15:38:02.408-05:002014-02-14T15:38:02.408-05:00I'm curious about your water additions. It loo...I'm curious about your water additions. It looks like, just from eyeballing and looking at a DC water report for a minute, that you're actually favoring chloride over sulfate here. Any reason for that? Typically you see a heavy favoring of the sulfate for IPAs. Brendanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05673377969435978898noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-12278589098788372522014-01-06T00:38:24.374-05:002014-01-06T00:38:24.374-05:00I pitched two vials of ECY North East Ale (ECY29) ...I pitched two vials of ECY North East Ale (ECY29) in a 13 gal IPA similar to Kern River Citra DIPA. Having brewed this beer a couple of times before with WL001 I noticed the following differences:<br /><br />1) Beer did not have the neutral smell that 001 has during fermentation. I achieved 80% AA with the FG at 1.012.<br /><br />2) Did not floc when cold crashing and using gelatin like 001. I can usually ferment out and clear a beer in 12 days. After 15 days (adding gelatin and 3 days cold crashing at 33 deg) the beer fermented out but stayed hazy and the residual yeast in suspension contributed to a harsh resiny bitterness. I did not notice any strong peach flavors in spite of dry hopping with 3oz of Amarillo.<br /><br />3) After two more weeks the beer settled clear. However it had a sweetness that none of the other beers I brewed with 001 had.<br /><br />Although I only used this yeast one time and I may be drawing a premature conclusion but I wonder if the Alchemist doesn't play to this yeasts character and put it in a can (and suggest you drink from it) for this very reason.<br /><br />I am interested in other experiences as to the final flavor of their beers with this yeast.<br />Thomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01086047454616294472noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-65196712062874778312013-12-24T06:55:38.687-05:002013-12-24T06:55:38.687-05:00That is the pitching rate of the beer (as far as I...That is the pitching rate of the beer (as far as I am aware), not of the slurry (which wouldn't be relevant). I just extrapolated the pitching rate per degree plato based on that starting gravity of the recipe given.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-55511856793412499862013-12-22T16:48:31.017-05:002013-12-22T16:48:31.017-05:00Looking for some clarification: You quoted Mitch S...Looking for some clarification: You quoted Mitch Steele as reporting the Alchemist pitches their yeast low "0.5 million cells per degree plato". After looking at Mitch's IPA book again I am confused; he reports on pg 287 the Alchemist pitches at 6-7 million cells/mL. I took this to be the concentration of the yeast culture and not that they are pitching 6-7 million cells per mL of wort. If you push through the calculations this would be beyond low in orders of magnitude. If this is the actual concentration of the yeast slurry I find this to be very interesting. I work in a lab and recently just grew up Conan cells from a can of Heady. I took this slurry into the lab and used our cell counter to get a cell count. The cell count was 180 million per/mL and 80 million per/mL viable. Am I interpreting this data wrong or do we still have no idea how much yeast the Alchemist is pitching. <br />Love reading the blog!!<br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11347544855192394461noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-7345213639339303342013-12-10T07:19:40.400-05:002013-12-10T07:19:40.400-05:00It certainly doesn't produce a huge krausen, b...It certainly doesn't produce a huge krausen, but depending on your process I bet you could make it work. The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-35456186603521190682013-12-08T10:31:14.476-05:002013-12-08T10:31:14.476-05:00Hi Mike - really enjoy reading about your experime...Hi Mike - really enjoy reading about your experiments... I was wondering if you could tell me if this is a top cropping strain? Cheers TomAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01297243185394031922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-74484104818819972102013-11-21T21:05:11.416-05:002013-11-21T21:05:11.416-05:00Interesting, Luke. I was wondering because I know ...Interesting, Luke. I was wondering because I know it's possible within just a few generations to get better flocculators, given Jasper's wild Saccharomyces' behavior at Lost Rhino. That's in a pro brewery setting with good yeast propagation technique. But I don't remember if it changed anything with attenuation.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-8129589939043754882013-11-21T04:35:21.089-05:002013-11-21T04:35:21.089-05:00I have only used the ECY29 version of Conan and af...I have only used the ECY29 version of Conan and after 3 different beers with various mash temperatures and gravities, I have yet to achieve a final gravity below 1.017. The 3 have varied between 1.017-1.019, with the 1.017 being a 4% hoppy session ale. <br /><br />The yeast is also extremely low on the flocculation spectrum. At refrigeration temperatures it takes weeks to clear out the beer.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12472060667309879612noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-46151325726277346072013-11-20T20:58:07.296-05:002013-11-20T20:58:07.296-05:00Thanks Art, glad to hear The Alchemist is still us...Thanks Art, glad to hear The Alchemist is still using their signature strain! <br /><br />Claudio, you'd know better than me. I'd guess it depends on how you propogate them?The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-86864648799424058582013-11-19T23:03:32.090-05:002013-11-19T23:03:32.090-05:00On the subject of the attenuation, isn't it ex...On the subject of the attenuation, isn't it expected behavior when culturing yeast from a bottle or can that you're getting low flocculators? Subsequent generations cropped from fermenters will be more flocculant, and therefore less attenuative?<br /><br />Flocculation isn't the sole factor in attenuation, but I haven't seen anyone address it for Conan specifically.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-19394697814202080252013-11-19T21:50:17.928-05:002013-11-19T21:50:17.928-05:00Art Whitaker wrote:
For those of you who attended ...Art Whitaker wrote:<br />For those of you who attended the presentation by John Kimmich of The Alchemist, I asked the question about the quote in the BYO article about brewers saying they no longer used the Conan yeast in heady Topper. John said they did so I emailed BYO to let them know they had a mistake, Here is their response:<br /><br /><br />Hey Art,<br />I just talked with John and yes sounds like your hunch is correct and that John is indeed still using Greg's Conan (VPB1188). Sounds like there were some wires getting crossed between my interview with him and Shaun Hill. In my interview with John he mentioned the evolution of his yeast over time and Shaun Hill made reference to the fact that Conan is no longer used by 'us'<br />in a reference when talking about the proprietary status of Conan and it's status with the Alchemist and Hill Farmstead. Anyway long story short I thought 'us' was the Alchemist & Hill Farmstead while it was just Hill Farmstead. <br /><br />I jumped to conclusions on that point and when I sent the article back to John for fact-checking he must have glossed over those sentences because he heavily edited an version of that paragraph in regards to Conan's use by yeast ranchers and legal rights surrounding the strain (supposedly why White Labs, Wyeast haven't been able to release it to date).<br /><br />ALL that said, it matters very little to us homebrewers who are either going to get a culture of yeast from the can (no matter whether it's Conan or not)<br />or from a yeast ranch that has harvested a can or trying to sub out for decent substitute. Looking again, now feeling ridiculous that I included this point even if was true since it has almost no bearing on the yeast homebrewer should use and instead stay focused. Oh well, too late now for<br />that. Will email the edit team to see about a retraction...<br /><br />Thanks for following up Art!<br /><br />Cheers!<br />Dave Green<br />Advertising/Sales Manager<br />~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br />Brew Your Own and WineMaker magazines<br />5515 Main St.<br />Manchester Center, VT 05255 USA<br />ph: 802-362-3981 ext. 107<br />fx: 802-362-2377<br />e: dave@byo.com<br />http://www.byo.com<br />http://www.winemakermag.com<br />~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~<br /><br />------ Forwarded Message<br />From: BYO <br />Reply-To: Art Whitaker <br />Date: Sun, 3 Nov 2013 22:56:50 -0600<br />To: <br />Subject: BYO: Article and recipe on Heady Topper<br /><br />This is an enquiry email via http://byo.com/ from:<br />Art Whitaker <br /><br />In your October issue I believe, you had a clone recipe for Heady Topper. In<br />the article it was mentioned that a brewer told the writer that The<br />Alchemist did not use the Conan yeast anymore. John Kimmich was the guest<br />speaker this weekend at the Music City Brew Off. I asked John about this and<br />he had seen that and did not know where that information came from and that<br />they indeed still use the Conan yeast strain for Heady Topper.<br />Bigbyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02252256172289866044noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-82058169953158347122013-11-19T20:05:08.833-05:002013-11-19T20:05:08.833-05:00Certainly possible that the statement in BYO was u...Certainly possible that the statement in BYO was unintentionally misleading. I was surprised to read it as well.<br /><br />Thanks Ed, interested to hear how the side-by-side goes!The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-70046300534759030492013-11-19T19:54:57.947-05:002013-11-19T19:54:57.947-05:00We know that Al cultured from generation 18+, I em...We know that Al cultured from generation 18+, I emailed Al back in December '12 and asked if I could send him my Conan culture to evaluate. He replied saying he just got a can and would culture it himself. We sent a few other emails back and forth then a few months later he started selling it. <br /><br />I used my Conan culture, which I believe to be g12 but who knows, with great success and 80%+ AA. Just a few weeks about I used ECY29 and it finished at %70. I am going to do a split batch with my original culture and see how it differs. Ed Coffeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04672738361854758709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-86427341627346428382013-11-19T19:40:40.439-05:002013-11-19T19:40:40.439-05:00I see lots of people are citing that quote as conf...I see lots of people are citing that quote as confirmation that The Alchemist isn't using Conan anymore, though I read it a different way. The ambiguous phrasing of it and its placing in the article, to me at least, suggested the author meant other brewers in Vermont are no longer using Conan, not the Alchemist specifically. I believe it's mentioned that Kimmich wasn't the only brewer to pick up Conan from Noonan originally.<br /><br />And anyway, I just have a hard time believing that Kimmich would drop Conan from his beer at a time like this, when he's already got new variables to tackle with expanding production. It seems like an incredibly odd and risky switch-up to make on your mega-popular / only beer.<br /><br />Either way, hopefully one day someone can dig up some more background on Conan! When you get a 'version' that attenuates properly (for a time, anyway), it really does make great beer.Bear Flavoredhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16217501752031139256noreply@blogger.com