tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post4039264228770107319..comments2024-02-23T15:34:32.816-05:00Comments on The Mad Fermentationist - Homebrewing Blog: All about BrettanomycesThe Mad Fermentationist (Mike)http://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comBlogger49125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-53692405584146240202018-03-29T20:09:56.149-04:002018-03-29T20:09:56.149-04:00Two months could be enough to achieve a stable gra...Two months could be enough to achieve a stable gravity if you produce a highly fermentable wort and get a good primary fermentation. That said, it is risky if you are bottling. A drop of .001 adds .5 volumes of CO2, so it doesn't take much to cause trouble. Assuming CO2 isn't an issue, Brett will continue to change the flavor of stored in the bottle at a moderate temperature. The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-68760712738111201292018-03-29T14:33:42.422-04:002018-03-29T14:33:42.422-04:00Hi! I'm planning to use brett in secondary for...Hi! I'm planning to use brett in secondary for the first time, since I’m having a baby boy that will use my beer room and/or we will be moving to a bigger place, I have a timeline of around 2 months of secondary brett fermentation. <br /><br />My plan is to do a 7gal saison and to divide it into 2x 3 gal and use 2 different brett strain (one in each) to see the difference between them. Haven’t decided which one (suggestions?)<br /><br />From what I read in your post I’ll do a starter for each to help and compensate for the 2 months only of secondary (does this make sense?)<br /><br />Do you think that 2 months in secondary is enough or I should wait to do this experiment when I have more time?<br /><br />Thanks in advance for your input!!<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-39039172484840854422018-03-25T09:23:28.819-04:002018-03-25T09:23:28.819-04:00It depends why the beer is astringent, a low FG al...It depends why the beer is astringent, a low FG alone shouldn't cause astringency by itself. Low FG can make existing issues worse if you are pulling in excess tannins. A few months may help, open a bottle and monitor the situation. Cold storage can speed up dropping them out.<br /><br />You might consider revisiting your water treatment, sparge technique, etc. you may have tannins that you don't notice in other beers. The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-10828771492211217942018-03-24T23:12:04.871-04:002018-03-24T23:12:04.871-04:00Brett can make a beer seem astringent, since it at...Brett can make a beer seem astringent, since it attenuates so much. What is your experience as to how long it takes such beers to mellow?<br /><br />I've had an inadvertent Brett saison in bottles for 5 months now. Inadvertent because it seems contaminated with a mild Brett strain (maybe B. clausenii, which I sometimes use in ciders). The Brett character is very low at this point, but the beer became very dry, which made it astringent, although this character does seem to be decreasing.<br /><br />I was told by a commercial microbrewer that tannins in the beer will eventually precipitate out so it becomes less astringent. He said to try it in maybe a year and a half. Yet many people drink their Brett beers much younger- just wondering what you think about this. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01792252161318187209noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-10399713296824343242018-01-27T07:36:10.034-05:002018-01-27T07:36:10.034-05:00Most of Brett's signature funky-flavor comes f...Most of Brett's signature funky-flavor comes from work on phenols. Wort has a pretty good base of these no matter what, but you can increase the content with ferulic acid rest and grain choices. More fermentable sugars boost the fruity-ester production. This is why 100% Brett beers are more fruity than funky. Having other acids available leads to production of different esters.<br /><br />Lacto is usually best early, it prefers simple sugars, moderate alcohol, and low IBUs. You may be best off souring a portion of the wort separately and adding that to hit your target pH.<br /><br />Brett saison is such a wide range, I don't have a single favorite. That Said, White Labs Brett C can be nice for a more subtle Brett contribution (to prevent it from just become a "Wild" ale). It also ferments well at warm temperatures. <br /><br />Best of luck!The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-10613718013379269542018-01-26T21:30:42.592-05:002018-01-26T21:30:42.592-05:00Hi Mike,
I'm sure you're well sick of thi...Hi Mike,<br /><br />I'm sure you're well sick of this post after all these years!<br />I've a Brett question...<br />I'm wanting to brew my first brett saison with L. brevis added in the mix too. Primary in stainless then rack to barrel for secondary.<br />If i mash higher 150-152 , the yeast will leave behind more complex sugars.<br />Does that mean the more complex sugars left over after primary fermentation, the more pronounced brett character I will have in the final beer? More residual sugar = bigger brett population = more brett character? <br />If i'm using Lacto too is better to have a higher FG after primary so the brett can then release boud sugars for the lacto to eat..? Whats the best way to get lacto and Brett to dance to the same beat post primary?<br /><br />AND what are you favourite brett strains for a saison?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03777646627307661981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-87421045553560641662017-03-18T21:21:42.183-04:002017-03-18T21:21:42.183-04:00Correct, you'd need to wait a few days for the...Correct, you'd need to wait a few days for the sulfite to dissipate and then pitch fresh yeast for bottle conditioning. Wine yeast is more sulfite tolerant if you want to be sure. Crash chill and fine the beer and then rack onto the Campden to maximize the effect. You can read more about my use of this technique on my <a href="http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2016/05/courage-russian-imperial-stout-second.html" rel="nofollow">Courage Russian Imperial Stout recipe</a>. <br /><br />I have separate kegs for clean and sour beers. You could share, but there is always some risk with all of the little places for microbes to hide. The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-22122761460322654482017-03-17T00:18:08.174-04:002017-03-17T00:18:08.174-04:00This is all great info! I have a few questions. I ...This is all great info! I have a few questions. I have a Strong Scotch Ale that I was considering pitching Brett in the secondary along with an oak spiral. The FG is about 1.030. So from what I understand, Brett will attenuate about 90% of that in the secondary fermenter? I feel this would dry out a Wee Heavy too much, which brings me to my next question.<br /><br />If it will continue to feast on the remaining sugars and dry out the beer, you mentioned you can use campden tablets to halt the Brett fermentation when you feel it's at the right level to keep the FG high for a style like this? Would that kill all the Brett and Edinburgh, so then you would pitch more yeast and priming sugar at bottling? <br /><br />Or I have the ability to keg and force carbonate the beer. You don't believe cross contamination is a concern in a keg, as long as I use separate tubing? I suppose the O-rings could also be at risk though...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09143744960732518488noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-11749129325922972712016-11-17T07:06:47.874-05:002016-11-17T07:06:47.874-05:00No need for a starter with secondary-Brett. I only...No need for a starter with secondary-Brett. I only make a starter when I am pitching for a 100% Brett beer because I need quick activity to protect the wort. <br /><br />Sounds like a good plan! Brett doesn't need a big FG to do its thing, but more fermentation means more esters and a fruitier character. The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-53195470714251891562016-11-16T20:29:50.272-05:002016-11-16T20:29:50.272-05:00I am planning a keeping porter; I plan to mash at ...I am planning a keeping porter; I plan to mash at a high temp (158F) and do the primary fermentation with a starter prepared from Wyeast 1318 (London Ale III). I was planning to add Brett B to the secondary. 5 gallon batch, expected OG of 1.06.<br /><br />My question: when I add the Brett B. to the secondary, can I add it straight from the Wyeast smack pack, or should I prepare a starter of the Brett B? I'm not sure where the final gravity will be after the sacc fermentation, but I'm expecting it to be higher. I plan on aging for a year in the presence of oak.Ryannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-45061497326038218862016-06-26T22:19:16.748-04:002016-06-26T22:19:16.748-04:00My metabisulfited COurage RIS worked out nicely, n...My metabisulfited COurage RIS worked out nicely, never started back fermenting again (now eight years in the bottle at cellar temperature). Dose rate is based on pH, the more acidity the less you'll need. I also think it is important to transfer the beer off of the sediment and into an impermeable fermentor to avoid microbes hiding in the wood.<br /><br />1.010 is a pretty low for a beer that big without Brett. It could just be that the oxygen allowed in by the wood is allowing further activity. Or perhaps the evaporation rate is altering the gravity.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-79379385745052386152016-06-24T19:31:29.465-04:002016-06-24T19:31:29.465-04:00I have a huge RIS in a barrel right now with an OG...I have a huge RIS in a barrel right now with an OG of 1.147. After racking to the barrel, it became apparent that there's what seems to be a brett infection. The beer has developed a very minor brett smell and flavor and over the past few months, has continued to dry out to 1.006 19.17%ABV. A couple of gallons that did not go into the barrel have stuck around 1.010, so I know there's definitely 'something' in the barrel.<br />Being such a large stout, it's now very dry, so I'd like to mix it with a sweet stout to give it back some of the sweetness that it needs. However, I don't want the brett to start going to town on the new food that doing so would provide. <br />I see that you have been playing with using potassium metabisulfite to kill off the brett. How has this been working?<br />Also, I can't seem to find any dosage amounts for beer as google is saturated with wine dosage rates. Any way you could point me in the right direction?<br />TIA!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08397386794251181644noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-6678269116368906432016-04-19T12:11:34.280-04:002016-04-19T12:11:34.280-04:00A single White Labs vial only has ~3 billion cells...A single White Labs vial only has ~3 billion cells of Brett, not nearly enough for primary fermentation. You'll need around 75 billion cells, which will require a coupe steps (roughly 5X volume for each). Brett takes 5-7 days to reach peak cell density, so give it a couple weeks of lead time before brewing. Best of luck!The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-82314133085338682522016-04-13T16:13:45.751-04:002016-04-13T16:13:45.751-04:00Never played with brett still not sure i want to. ...Never played with brett still not sure i want to. However, I am going to do a small batch (2 gallons) of session (.042) apa type beer then pitch half with a standard strain and half I was hoping to do 100% brett. Is a single vial of brett sufficient for this? I also have a couple bottles of crooked stave 100% brett hop savant that I could use the dregs from.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08410944544372045554noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-17110900346725603752016-04-04T22:07:40.339-04:002016-04-04T22:07:40.339-04:00I was going to purchase a steam buffet tray at the...I was going to purchase a steam buffet tray at the restaurant wholesale store. I want to use it to homebrew a cool ship wild fermentation ale. The above article helps for realistic expectations.Geordiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10451184081895677784noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-54774649593350397632015-06-28T08:11:32.078-04:002015-06-28T08:11:32.078-04:00I don't think the presence of Saccharomyces (a...I don't think the presence of Saccharomyces (a lot or a little) changes the attenuation of Brettanomyces. At least I can't think of a reason why it would. Often Brett finished beers are mashed cool and would have high attenuation no matter what you pitched. It would be a fun comparison to split a batch 100% Brett and mixed-fermentation to see where they ended up. Best of luck!The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-84401344436951252272015-06-26T11:46:02.277-04:002015-06-26T11:46:02.277-04:00I recently started fermenting a couple batches of ...I recently started fermenting a couple batches of sour Brett beer. Both were pitched at 95F with Lacto-only in one, Lacto/Pedio in the other, and held at 95F for a day before ramping down to 70F (figure it would give the bacteria a head start to start growing). I then oxygenated and pitched Wyeast Brett Brux in both, then in the Lacto-only added the secondary cake from a Roeselare blend + commercial dregs sour batch, and in the Lacto/Pedio added the secondary cake from a de Bom blend + commercial dregs sour batch. There will likely be a small amount of Saccharomyces in the secondary cakes (which had been in secondary for about 7 months). <br /><br />So this beer won't really be an all Brett + bacteria beer, but since there is little Saccharomyces, would you anticipate that the final attenuation would be lower than a typical mixed Sacch+Brett fermentation? Have you ever added a more highly attenuative ale yeast to a Brett beer post-primary to increase attenuation?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09321625844609064462noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-76359462427296539092015-05-14T21:06:30.247-04:002015-05-14T21:06:30.247-04:00Considering this post is seven years old... a few ...Considering this post is seven years old... a few weeks ago I dumped the <a href="http://www.themadfermentationist.com/2014/09/phenols-and-brett-fruity-and-funky.html" rel="nofollow">Brett-phenol experiment</a> I brewed last year after a final tasting suggested it wasn't changing much. I was underwhelmed by the performance of the White Labs Brett brux honestly, neither beer developed much classic Brett character.<br /><br />I usually avoid secondary Brett fermentations with IPAs, hard to get enough Brett character before the hops die. At a minimum I'd hold off on dry hopping until the Brett character was where I wanted it.The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-89772437314279652532015-05-14T08:03:24.959-04:002015-05-14T08:03:24.959-04:00Hi Mike,
thanks for sharing these information! I ...Hi Mike,<br /><br />thanks for sharing these information! I just inoculated Brett-C for the first time in secondary (IPA, 180IBU).<br /> <br />I was wondering if there is new evidence on the Brett and Phenols discussion? <br /><br />Cheers <br />SimiSimihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17483026836313976767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-87855076692175187152015-02-08T17:42:24.063-05:002015-02-08T17:42:24.063-05:00The amount of oxygen that diffuses through the pla...The amount of oxygen that diffuses through the plastic won't be an issue, but those lids are tricky to seal completely every time. I age most of my sours in plastic carboys with universal bungs. Glass works, but the risk of breaking them makes we nervous. You just need to make sure that air doesn't have a direct path into the aging beer (e.g., empty airlock, poorly sealed stopper).<br /><br />Hope it turns out well!The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-59106631845657952372015-02-08T13:44:46.676-05:002015-02-08T13:44:46.676-05:00Hey Mike -
Thanks for all the info. I am current...Hey Mike -<br /><br />Thanks for all the info. I am currently about to rack a saison to secondary and am going to pitch some Brett. You mentioned that the Brett likes oxygen. I plan to leave the brew in the secondary for about 5-6 months. Do you think a standard plastic brew bucket would allow in too much oxygen? If so what container would you recommend for secondary?Brianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06014484310393876216noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-63942627754750635982014-04-09T02:24:10.785-04:002014-04-09T02:24:10.785-04:00Hi Mike,
Thank you for the information - this is g...Hi Mike,<br />Thank you for the information - this is good to know about the amount of yeast cells in the Brett packs.<br />You won't believe this, but it's been 7 days since I pitched the 1/2 gallon, so tonight - BEFORE I saw your response - I pitched 3 more gallons of wort in the starter. Now I'm a little concerned - should I only pitch a half gallon of it? I don't want this Orval to be overpitched on the Brett. As you can understand, with 45 gallons I want it to be perfect. I really have no interest in experimenting with this particular brew. <br /><br />Thank you in advance - I'm interested to hear your thoughts. (And I swear I won't take anymore action until I hear from you).Rachaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10562910562932668208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-68469070192940689932014-04-08T20:53:06.535-04:002014-04-08T20:53:06.535-04:00The 1/2 gallon starter is probably plenty. Those W...The 1/2 gallon starter is probably plenty. Those Wyeast Brett packs actually have quite a few cells, just a bit less than the standard 100 billion cell brewer's yeast packs. Even pitching straight you'd be at 500,000 cells/mL, which is more than many breweries pitch for secondary fermentation.<br /><br />Cheers and best of luck!The Mad Fermentationist (Mike)https://www.blogger.com/profile/07379932734747507258noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-13256455784733787842014-04-08T02:29:05.924-04:002014-04-08T02:29:05.924-04:00Hello Michael,
I'm enjoying reading over your ...Hello Michael,<br />I'm enjoying reading over your blog - it is answering questions I've had for awhile on the use of Brett. I was referred to you by an advanced member of the HBD (HomeBrew Digest Forum). <br />My question is about Brett in Secondary... I've just brewed a 45 gallon batch of Orval (my first time). It is happily chugging away in primary, and I am currently building up a starter for the Brett that will be pitched in to secondary. How large of a starter would you recommend? I started with Wyeast 5112 (smackpack-like package) and pitched it in to 1/2 gallon of wort. I'm ready to step it up, was going to shoot for between 2-3 gallons to pitch in to the Orval secondary. Is this about right for the amount of Brett to add? <br /><br />In addition, I'm going to build up the Brett an extra 1/2 gallon to what I need for the Orval and use for secondary in one of my hoppy APA's (after reading your blog and how you add Brett to your extremely hoppy IPA's, I'm feeling quite creative!) How long would you leave Brett in secondary like this? The current FG on the APA is 1.012. Thanks in advance for your input.Rachaelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10562910562932668208noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-8066877917844499643.post-57460041918230030792014-04-02T10:18:10.129-04:002014-04-02T10:18:10.129-04:00That was pretty much my thinking as well. Thanks f...That was pretty much my thinking as well. Thanks for being such a good resource! I've been consulting your website quite a bit as I dip my toes into brewing with Brett. Looking forward to the book!Johnnyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11538785744547920251noreply@blogger.com